Talk: Zero Point Module

O'neill did not build a ZPM. It was naquadah powered.

I think the liquid naqahdah cell only served as a kicker. There's simply not enough total energy and such a low power coming from such a cell, to allow an intergalactic connection, since as a rule, they require absolutely massive energy inputs. O'neill can only have made a one shot power source then. Such a cell is only good to power Jaffa staves.

It is rather impressive in fact that a human, with bribes of alteran knowledge, could make such a powerful reactor with such primitive spare parts. It gives a whole new vision on what the Lantians could achieve in terms of power sources! Mister Oragahn 23:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Dont forget that the knowledge Jack used could have been beyond the Lanteans, the repository was built a long time after. Sman789 03:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

the knowledge Jack had was ancient not alteranA scotsman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 22:39, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

What about the one from the Tria, the Lantean ship from the season three mid-season episode? They had a ZPM, according to Sheppard, and it was what they used to send the Expedition home.

74.69.21.12 04:20, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

More links to read

Extra information about ZPMs' outputs and inner mechanisms

• GateWorld.net: Power source comparison thread
• StarFleetJedi.net: ZPM power output
• SpaceBattles.com: ZPM discrepancies... power levels, overloads and else

Cite Sources People

The weight of the ZPM is listed but not source for it. I'll remove it if nobody can cite the source, since I've never heard a weight for a ZPM explained.

The source of the wight is in the Stargate SG-1: The DVD Collection 52. You can see for yourself here. And yes, the DVD collection IS an official source. Matthew R Dunn 11:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

HEIGHT

HOW COULD A ZPM BE 25 INCHES TALL. THE OFFICIAL SOURCE SAID IT WAS 0.65M I CONVERTED IT TO INCHES AND IT US 25. DOES THE M STAND FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN METERS. THE ZPM WOULD ONLY BE 14-17 INCHES.

25 inches is 0.65 metres or 65 centimetres. 78.32.219.154 11:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Power

How much power do you think a ZPM has in it (assuming the ones used on Atlantis were at (near) full power even though they probably weren't?) Obviously this isnt for anyone to add to the article it's just speculation out of interest. I think I heard someone say 10 to the 40th power but I dont know what units it was or how the conclusion was made? Sman789 01:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Well obviously there is no way of knowing the exact power output unless an official source outright states it, which seems unlikely. Whenever talking about a power source its units are generally given to be in watts, or joules/second. Just to give an idea of how much power a ZPM would produce if the 10 to the 40 estimate is anywhere near accurate: the sun produces around 10 to the 26th watts in an entire year. —AscendedAlteran 07:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I guess its probably less than that then :D Sman789 10:36, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it 10^39. There's nothing that can change my mind about that. —Unsigned comment by 74.132.217.67 (talk • contribs).

Why is that? —AscendedAlteran 00:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Because it just sounds right to me. It's not to much but it's not to little.

well thats only our star right. but didn't rodney say its a universe in a bottle. that would mean it would have a lot more power. so its confusing. its possible that the ancient tech power reqs are alot higher than we thought.—SupremeCommander 18:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC) thats a very high probability.

The Return

Do we know that the Ancients created the two extra ZPMs that were found in the city at the end of the episode? I rather assumed that the replicators installed them.

When we made contact with the Ancient ship Tria, our ZPM was depleted. The Ancients installed One ZPM in the city that they got from the Tria. Later, when the replicators invaded, the replicators installed 2 more ZPMs of their own. However, it is possible that the replicators replaced all 3 (getting rid the the Ancient's partially depleted one) in favor of a fully powered one.—Anubis 10545 00:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually it was only said that the Ancients might have a ZPM with them on the Tria. And why wouldn't the Ancients make new ZPMs to power the city? It was also never stated, let alone mentioned, that the Asurans installed even one ZPM. —AscendedAlteran 02:59, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Weir said: "We cannot keep all three ZeeP.Ms from the Replicator take-over, Rodney." That makes it sound like it was the replicators who supplied the ZPMs. Although Sheppard says: "thanks to the Ancients’ new ZeeP.M." So I guess they could have created a new one. Although, if you notice in Sheppard's quote, the ZPM is singular. That being said, the other 2 could have been supplied by the replicators. Although if the Ancient's could have created their own that quickly, they could have made more by when the replicators attacked. It looks like there's really no way to know. Strange, I though they mentioned that the ZPM was from the Tria... looks like they didn't after reviewing the transcript.—Anubis 10545 05:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I think if the Lanteans could make ZPMs that fast then it must be pretty much 100% automated, in which case the atlantis expedition would have been searching for the command ever since and probably found it by now. My guess is that they were made somewhere else, but it could just be that the program to make them was very hidden and encrypted (which would make sense.) Sman789 22:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

If the Lanteans could make ZPMs that fast, it's difficult to see how they could ever have lost the war with the Wraith. More to the point, if it was that easy, then in "Before I Sleep" Janus could simply have run a few off, or showed alternate-timeline Wier how to do so, rather than giving her co-ordinates of outposts that already had them. I've always been of the belief that ZPMs were incredibly resource- and energy-intensive to manufacture (it's not much of a stretch to imagine that creating the artificial pocket of space-time that it taps into might take as much, or even more energy than could actually be extracted from it), so even the Ancients couldn't just churn them out like a production line. I'd expect to find some city-sized naquadah reactor somewhere in Pegasus producing one ZPM a year (even one a century might be adequate - their fantastic energy output wouldn't have been required all that often in peacetime). Besides, if the Ancients had an effectively inexhaustible source of ZPMs, then what was the point of Project Arcturus? --78.33.73.67 18:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Then how did the Replicators make so many in their homeworld once they became human form? Rodney said in "lifeline" that they had dozens and wouldnt even miss one for a while.

New Evidence

I found some evidence that could lead to the true output of the zpm.

In the episode where they had to close a universal rift. the city drained the 2% of the zpm each second. It says that in anouther epesode when the zpm activates the planet would be destroyed to do this they would have to shunt all of the power in to it to overload. so 2% is about 10^38 to destroy a planet. times that by 50 to get 100%. that gives us 5e+39. This is solid numbers from the show. the show was the most credible resource so if you would like to pick this apart. which i sure there will be flaws found, go right ahead. but this is a good start. So for now i am going to assume that a fully charged Zero Point Module is 5 times 10 to the 39 power or 5e+39. Hope this evidence helps. I would like to remind you that it has been stated that a ZPM is a virtually limitless power source. Meaning that it has so much power in it that it is able to power almost everything. Which explanes why the ancients may not have put a ZPM factory on bourd because with three they could power the city for a almost indefinate amount of time.

Allthough if I'm understanding it correctly, the entire theory of yours is based on a ZPM being able to draw maximum of 2% per second, if it could draw more then its capacity would be less. Still, it seems like a good estimate Sman789 18:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The Return

"Upon arriving in Atlantis the Ancients asked the Expedition to leave, and created three ZPMs to power their city."

I don't believe this is correct.

The Return, Part I (Time Index: 20:59) John: "We are way ahead of schedule, ready to head out at 08:00. Daedalus is gonna take most of the gear, people and their odds and ends will make their way through the Stargate thanks to the ancients new ZPM"

Meaning that the ancients brought 1 ZPM with them.

The Return, Part II (Time Index: 31:58) John: "What is that?" Rodney: "They brought the ZPM's to power the Stardrive"

This would suggest that no additional ZPM's were created by the Ancients.

Yes, you're probsbly right, allthough there would be no way for Rodney to know if the Ancients or Asurans made them, seeing as they had left the city and both Ancient and Asuran ZPM look and (to the best of our knowledge) fuction identicaly. Sman789 17:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

This is true; however, were this the case that would mean that a ZPM production facility was present on Atlantis. If this is the case, why hasn't the expedition found it yet? Also, in "The Tao of Rodney" during the first couple of seconds, they talk about how they are shutting down systems that the Ancients activated while they were back in control. It is very likely that the production of a ZPM would have required a lot of power and would have been one of the first systems they shut down when they were trudging through city shutting things down. KlaxxonBlue 14:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

My guess is that they were made somewhere else, at least at first, but when they were "besieged for many years," I think they would have put a method of making them in Atlantis somewhere (for obvious reasons.) I think that the program to make them is in Atlantis but probably very hidden and encrypted (which would make sense as it is among the most powerful technologies if used in the wrong {wraith} hands.) Sman789 19:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction

Im sorry but I have to contradict my own evedence in New Evedence. I don't know where i heard that 2% could destroy a planet. does any one know where that was said. and does anyone know how much energy is needed to destroy a planet completly. If you do thats how much is in a zpm. Rodney or someone said that the zpm could destroy the planet if it detonated. that was when the gould infultrated atlantis rigged the zpm and set it to explode. so if anyone can figure out how much it takes to completly obliterate a planet then there you go.

It depends really. Planets can actually take quite a bit of punishment, but to destroy a planet in the way they are talking about its mass has to be scattered faster than its own gravity can pull it back together (so at least escape velocity). The only viable way to determine the amount of energy an overloaded ZPM generates would be if we knew both the size of the planet and how fast the planet was scattered. Even then, we have no idea how much energy was left in the ZPM in the first place; all we know was that it would just generate more energy than its own power conduits were designed to handle. I highly doubt it was going to just dump out all of its energy in one go. —AscendedAlteran 20:02, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

well lets say that its a earth size planet. Its fully powered untapped zpm and it can dump all of its energy. My guess is 10^39 the reason being is this is able to completly blow a planet to bits as well as disrupt any type of fields. It also sounds like it could meet all the requirments in the article. I have pondered on whether its 5e^39 or 10^39. I think that 5e^39 is just to much because they always act like their is not enough power, that or Earth has never encounted a fully powed ZPM. but 5e^39 is a massive number. 10^39 seems to be average. where it could power pretty much anything and but yet its not to powerful. so I am just stuck between the two. I always switch my support. Like right know i am on 10^39. But theres no scientific evedence meaning no numbers to back each one up. but Arcturas out put was 10^40 give or take a few powers. (remember this is just speculations) so anyway arcturas blew up 5/6 of a solar system. Thats only 50% powerd so. If arcturace is able to destroy a solar system when fully powed. Divide 10^40 by 2 = 5e^39 then divede that by 6 8e^38 then times that by 5 (since it destroyed five /6)= 4E^39 since arcturas is equal to 25 to 24 zpms ( well go with 24 so its even no decimals) so since its half powered that 12 zpms. wich is equal to 3e^38(actually its 3.43333333333e^38 but i just rounded it up). so thats closer to 10^39 rather than 5E^39. So you could go with 3E^38 or 10^39 or 5E^39. So any Ideas or a choice. I still go with 10^39. I think 3e^38 is to small. I mean not that small but not enough for what the article describes a single zpm can do. You never know it could be 5e^39 and Ancient technology could have far greater power requirements.

Arcturas was spinking far beyond any controllable overload, not at half capacity. That blasted 5/6 of solar system beyond any recovery. (More likely by some temporary damage to timespace itself rather than by blast alone). 50 percent were about 12 ZPMs this was far far more.--Paeris ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 21:03, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

nevermind i found where it says that two pecent destroys a planet contradiction solved.

Orders of magnitude (energy)

4×1069 J, the estimated total mass-energy of the observable universe.. Just as a point of order I am quite interested in the outcome of your calculations. I hope this helps in some way, thus far your calculation has the greatest validity based on observed information and deductive logic. Oh yes and my physics professor told me the amount of energy it would take to utterly destroy a planet the size and mass of earth, it as follows.

To completely vaporize the Earth, you'll need to overcome the gravitational binding energy of all of the atoms that hold the planet together. This amounts to 224,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Joules.

Using Maximum yield standard hydrogen bombs you would need 107,000,000,000,000 of them.

The Mathematic break down is:

224,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Joules per planet divided by 2,100,000,000,000,000,000 Joules per nuclear bomb = 107,000,000,000,000 nuclear bombs per planet. Hope It Helps

D.E.P

• I disagree with this, from what you just said this would be the energy required to turn a planet into monoatomic dust. In practice you would only need to blow it into sizeable chunks. Also don't forget all of the electromagnetic energy binding things like the core together. This is pretty large as EM force is like 10^39 times stronger than gravity. Fa6ade ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 21:48, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Glowing

Is it just me or do the zpms seem to glow randomly when not plugged in. When they are plugged in they consistently glow but when not they sometimes glow and sometimes don't. —Fa6ade 22:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Well ZPMs are supposed to glow when "plugged in", and not glow when "unplugged". As for the times where they glow when unplugged, then... well... they... I have no idea. -- Matthew R Dunn

It looks cooler :) —Anubis 10545 00:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It looks cooler when they do glow or when they don't? —AscendedAlteran 15:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

When they glow...—Anubis 10545 17:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah they do. Whenever I see an unplugged ZPM that isn't glowy I always think its dead. —AscendedAlteran 18:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Thing is though there also some inconsistency in what a depleted zpm looks like, the one originally in the antartic outpost was totally black when taken out of the chair but the one from proclarush which was depleted after gating to atlantis when it was given into Camulus it was normal but non-glowy like the depleted ones in atlantis. —Fa6ade 19:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Glowing

The reason a zpm glow randomly is because the subatomic wormholes that leads to the pocket of subspace is popping up and discharging energy randomly.

I don't suppose you have a source for that? —Supakillaii ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 07:32, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

It is the most logical answer.

Power within

It is possible to find out how much power in a zpm(assuming that subspace is like "normal" space). If somebody would post how much area a zpm take up, I will find the power within.

ZPM

The reason the ancient made ZPM so fast is because that were at war with the Wraith. And the reason they lost is because they were too many of the Wraith.If you had the most powerful energy source that can turn into a bomb that will kill millions, maybe billions of people to stop a few Wraith that can be back thorugh cloning, would you use it? I highly doubt the Ancient actually had to put more energy into make a zpm than it produces. That dumb.

• Yes, otherwise, what would be the point of creating a ZPM if you have an even better power source available to you? But, maybe the larger power source is simply too much for most systems to handle, and it can only create ZPMs? Or maybe it's too inefficient to connect the larger power source to main systems, or something. Maybe the bigger power source is just to hard to recharge normally, and you have to fly it into a star, or something (like the Destiny). Mihb2 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 00:28, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
• also they were at war and a zpm as we saw turns a normal hive into one big beast so the last thing you do is mass produce as it becomes easier for the wraith to get hold of even just one.BlueSquadron ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 09:21, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Rechargable?

Can ZPMs - hypothetically - be recharged, or are they rendered completely useless once they run out of juice? 64.180.93.200 00:31, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

• As far as I'm aware the ZPM's can't be recharged or at least the Atlantis expedition didn't know how. I personally don't see why the ancients would bother when they could just make new ones. However I'm pretty sure they definitely can't be recharged once their dry because the pocket of sub-space reaches maximum entropy and collapses, effectively ceasing to exist. If you could recreate the pocket why not just make a new ZPM? Fa6ade ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 21:44, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

My stargate wiki

Could also need help with my wikis if anybody would help me just edit

why

Why Tau'ri do not use Asgard Computer core to create zpm?

I'd say because they don't know how a ZPM works on the inside which they need to know to make one. Othersides it probably is like that just because it would take away the most plots... And then we could easily beat up the wraith and also all other threats because the biggest problem is still the energy Kust r ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 19:06, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Because Asgard core, while it could hypotheticaly construct the outer shell, would have hard time creating the limited pocket subspace time within it. (that is beyond Asgard beaming technology). It probably requires different means. It would be more logical to ask it to build neutrino-ion generators (1 terajoule per secod output- more than enough for anything) --Paeris ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 13:55, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

dart beam

i dont know if anyones ever thought about this but how can a dart dematerialize a zpm such as in spoils of war. i thought darts held dematerialized things in some kind of energy storage, wouldnt the zpm have too much energy to be stored in the tiny dart —ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 03:36, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

good point i think it would be because the ZPM extracts the energy from artificial subspace region so it isnt actually in the ZPM at the time i cant be sure howeverBlueSquadron ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:49, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thing is, if a ZPM created a new region of subspace or whatever each time it was used, it would never run out of energy. Way I think of it is 1 ZPM = one micro-universe and with it a finate amount of energy. If you literally took apart the ZPM then I don't see how it would keep containment of the wormhole thing inside it, surely the wormhole would stay where it is and just collapse as the ZPM was removed from it, and the ZPM would just not work anymore. Perhaps the transporters were configured not to dissassemble the ZPM, just to move it somehow. But it's like if you deconstructed and then reconstructed an active stargate somewhere else, you would expect the wormhole to stay and then collapse where it is, as you can't beam up a wormhole. The alternative would seem to be that the ZPM creates the universe and the link itself, but if that were the case then if a ZPM broke you could just reset it and it would make a new universe in itself. Sman789 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 00:14, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

I would say that each ZPM is meerely a tool used to connect to one unique pocket of some artificial subspace time. Meaning that each ZPM conects to different pocket. (If you would do exact "copy" of one ZPM (even charged) those two would lead to same pocket- you would have two drains on one source.) ZPMs probably do not create those pockets themselves, they only link to them.--Paeris ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 13:59, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

ZPMs have survived Asgard beaming (SGA 0201 The Seige), Dart beaming (SGA 0412 Spoils of War) and Stargate travel (SGA 0520 Enemy at the Gate). All three of these methods turn the ZPM into pure energy and then reconstruct it into matter elsewhere. Therefore, it is logical to assume that the ZPM does not contain in itself the power source, but rather, like a Stargate, can create a wormhole to an artificial pocket elsewhere. If one can modify the control crystals, one can theoretically change which pocket is used to draw power, effectively "recharging" a ZPM. However, to do so is incredibly hard, since the Ancients made the ZPMs like we make batteries (only with a much larger power output, of course) and thus would not have included a way to easily switch between subspace pockets on the ZPMs. In summary: the universe thingy from which the ZPMs derive power is not in the ZPM, but is rather connected to it via a wormhole (or some such--this is speculation) created by the control crystals of the ZPM. The power is then dumped into the hollow core, and the control crystals act as a sluice dictating how much power is drawn and where to run it to provide usable electrical power. How ZPMs can fly a big-ass ship will never be known, since pure electricty can't work as a rocket. Maybe gigantic inertial-dampener type jets? Anyway, as far as can be determined, that is how a ZPM works assuming logical and correct application of the three beaming/transport types and the ZPM operating rules we have observed. Myrrlyn ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 19:41, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The ZPM could be recharged quite easily- recreate the artificial pocket of subspace time (I would be interested how Ancients did that. (Recycling a bottle could be possible but the bottle is probably not that difficult to make). theoreticaly it could be possible to recharge if it wasn´t discharged completly be reversing the thing that pumps energy out of it. But finding a powersource that could output so much energy in reasonable amout of time would be tricky. Plusasuring that the pocket doesn´t "blow up" in subspace... (1 Neutriono-Ion generator with it´s terawatt output would probably take months to fill just one to full capacity and that is more or less second best thing on the market)--Paeris ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:41, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

My guess would be that the transporters were modified to keep the ZPM intact and/or ZPMs prevent themselves from being deconstructed (which considering the energy they give off is entirely possible) and so the transporter simply brings them up. Sman789 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 00:25, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Does not Camulus say that the ZPM he found an sabotaged was 50% charged? An did not Carter say that the resulting explosion would of destroyed Earths solar system?24.34.18.40 02:38, July 16, 2010 (UTC)Ulysess

We dont really have the capacity to fully understand how teleporters and such devices work yet, nor how the energy of a zpm is actually extracted. We can guess from what we know is that transporters dont transfer things into any form of raw energy, but if they do turn things into energy, its a specific type of energy, that isnt destructive, and that its safe to transport virtually any device. Perhaps the pocket created by a zpm is still there, but only accesible by a specific ZPM, that the link is straight from one to the other perhaps bound at the quantum level when it comes into existance, I'm kinda guessing here.

Back on to Camulus's ZPM, yes, he didnt know of a way to use it for his own gain after study, didnt want to share it with other Goa'uld, so he rigged it to expliode in such a way that nearly the remaining energy stored in the pocket would be released in an explosion. Its not extracting energy from it the normal way. Overloading a ZPM like Rodney did is different, in that way, your basicly extracting energy from it at a rate faster then its release mechanism, or the device its powering can handle, building up energy and blowing up, not really releasing 100% of the pocket, necesarily. Think of the ZPM as more of a link between our space, and the pocket wherein the vaccuum energy is extracted, somehow. When the ZPM is dematerialized, the pocket is there, but there is no link to the "realspace" (the plane we exist in). When the ZPM is rematerialized, the pocket is once again linked to our plane. The ZPM may in fact link to a purely articitial plane of subspace that was created matching the ZPM. Only accessible to that specific ZPM.74.129.66.59

P.S. Vacuum energy isnt possible to simply recharge, its a one way thing. So far as we know. ZPMs are not batteries. How the ancients created the artifical subspace bubble and how to create a link between us and it, and extract energy from it, are a mystery. If you want a battery, try anti-matter. You only have to find a halfway effiecient way of creating, storing it, and then a reactor to use it in.74.129.66.59 08:11, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

unless they didnt beam the ZPM's aboard, but went down and took them--Escyos ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 11:33, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Potentia

Could Potentia be the Ancient name for ZPM's --Escyos ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 11:51, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Im also gonna have to pull into question the validity of the size measurements, i doubt a zpm is 60cm long, look at the picture, its about the 30cm long, i see that as a contradiction to whats seen on the show. Escyos ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 03:41, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

How it works...

I've gotten the idea that a ZPM contains an artificial subspace, and it taps into the said subspace via the quantum foam, and when the artificial subspace reaches maximum entropy, it collapses. Or is it so that the quantum foam reaches the maximum entropy and it collapses?

This might help. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 05:49, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

That... solved nothing, at least to me...—Supakillaii ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 09:21, August 24, 2010 (UTC

Mckay said it was the artificial pocket of subspace that reches maximum entropy and collapses.—A scotsman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 16:35, August 24, 2010 (UTC)