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How does it come that the Wraith never used ZPMs in the war with the Ancients? If they did they would've won within a matter of weeks to months instead of a century. —Swedish guy 08:44, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a good point. Maybe they didn't think about it because they thought it was better to devote them to creating an army of soldiers. Maybe they tried to, but their attempts failed...—Anubis 10545 08:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

i'm with the fact that they thought more soldiers were better than supped up hives.—SupremeCommander 08:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah? Well, the Wraith have never been really famous for their high level of intelligence or their tactical brilliance anyway. —Swedish guy 08:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Even if they had upgraded their hives they wouldnt have been much better against the ancients. The upgraded hulls are still no match for drones and being able to detect cloaked jumpers is little advantage when you're faced with auroras and city ships, not to mention the beam satelites that could still probably slice them in half. If youve only got 3 ZPMs and its either 3 super hives that can still be destroyed or thousands of new hives and millions of soldiers then its quite an easy decision. Sman789 02:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

yup, sure is, go for the 3 super hives =p. jk, go for the soldiers and thousands of reg hives. thats how they won the war anyways, numbers not power. sure, most of em got destroyed. like only 60 were left at the end, but they made the ancients flee the galaxy. drones tear through em but nothing else can. so that super hive is good for facing anythign except drones. —SupremeCommander 02:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

you can't save your terietori with only 3 ships when they had only 100 ships left and the ancient had 50 the ancient could very easy destroy the 100 and then destroy the 3 hives which need over a year with atlantis and the rest of the fleet
where did you get that the hives hall is no match for the drones?

Vegas Edit

Nowhere in Vegas do they explain how that Hive found the location of Earth, who's Hive it was, who the Wraith in the dart was, or how or when they captured Todd. In fact, Todd isn't even called Todd in Vegas' reality, because John was never there to name him. And given Todd was delerious from starvation, they must have had him for a very long time. There's no evidence to suggest that Todd ever worked with the Atlantis Expedition or that he was involved in the Battle of Asuras, or that it was his Hive that attacked Earth. Kenny also makes no appearance in the episode, so where is the evidence that that Hive is definitely the ZPM powered one? —Ka'lel 20:43, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol, if it didnt have a ZPM, how did it hyperjump to earth. If it didnt have a ZPM, why wouldnt have it just exploded in hyperspace, even using interstellar hyperdrives the radiation is too much for a normal hull to withstand. If it had being using an intergalactic drive it would have taken hundreds of stops to avoid damage, which would have meant the wraith would die of starvation as theres no planets in the intergalactic void for them to feed on. Also, the wraith know the Tau'ri have beams, they wouldnt have sent a hive as weak as the normal ones to attack earth. I agree theres no evidence to suggest Kenny was the pilot of the ship, so we could remove that or at least mention its not cirtain, but that hive did have a ZPM. Sman789 21:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
OK, I concede that it was most likely a ZPM powered Hive, but given the major differences in the timelines (starting with John never joining the Stargate program) there's still too many unknowns to say it was Todd's hive ship. Therefore, I've altered the paragraph to say that it was a ZPM powered hive, but not necessarily the same one. —Ka'lel 22:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Makes sense Sman789 00:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
It's also quite possible they managed to get a hold of the Aurora mission reports allowing them to build intergalactic hyperdrives. I think this is more likely, because in Vegas it's shown how the Antarctic chair destroyed the Hive with relative ease (before they were able to launch a lot of darts), while the ZPM-powered hive is shown to be resistant to drone weapons (and Asgard weapons for that matter) in Enemy at the gate Unsigned comment by 85.145.187.194 (talk • contribs).
Becket barely fired any drones at the hive though so you cant say its resistant to them. Besides they wouldnt just send one ordinary hive to earth when they know earth has like 5 ships, even if in that timeline they didnt have any beam weapons. Unsigned comment by Sman789 (talk • contribs).

We're beating a dead horse now. The visuals were incomplete in Enemy at the Gate (possibly both episodes) and the resolution of both was terrible. We'll know more when the episodes are officially released and we can watch them in Hi-res. Until then, let's just assume the Hive in Vegas was ZPM powered. —Ka'lel 15:54, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Kalel the leaked eps I watched were near DVD quality, it's possible you watched an inferior copy
Theyre good quality but in big letters at the bottom of the CGI sequences it says "TEMP VFX" which I assume means incomplete visual effects and might be changed in later relese. Sman789 16:49, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
The only available leaks are what are called "DVD Screeners". They were sent to the press so they could be watched and reviewed and so that they have talking points for interviews. These particular screeners were sent before they were finished. Likely, Vegas was further into post production than "Enemy", but it is very possible there will be differences in the final versions of both the episodes. Enemy at the Gate will definitely have updated visuals (per the "TEMP VFX" tags), but both could have subtle scene changes, including additional or extended scenes or dialogue, or reordering or removal of scenes or dialogue. Changes like these (if any) are usually subtle and don't affect the story, only the pacing of the episode. But one particularily referenced scene in "Enemy" is when Carson fires drones at the Hive. That scene is tagged as unfinished, so the drones seen may only be the "keys" that show the timing of the animation. However, I could be wrong and that could be all that he coul fire due to power constraints. The point is, though Vegas obviously closer to completion tha "Enemy", both episodes should be considered unfinished copies until we see the official, released versions. Once they're released in 720p, we should have more answers. —Ka'lel 20:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


Though nothing changed fom the pre-air, after watching the final version of the episode in 720p, I'm reopening this discussion. You can clearly see in the moments before the Hive above Earth is destroyed, it looks like regular hive and not a ZPM powered one. (The hole in the center, the size and "waviness" of the hull, and the size of the spiked "extentions/extremities".) Now, you could make the argument that they attacked Earth before the upgrades had finished because they did not know about the drones or the control chair, but if you watch Enemy at the Gate, the Hive already looked noticeably different when AR-1 first approached it in the Puddle Jumper, which was before they received the transmission that was sent at the end of "Vegas". Also, because of the major differences in Todd's interaction with Atlantis (being held in captivity to the point of starvation and never having that initial interaction with John Sheppard), it's safe to say the Battle of Asuras played out differently, and there's a chance they never acquired those ZPM's in the first place. I'd like to remove the section completely, but at the very least, let's add some speculation tags (if such tags exist). —Ka'lel 22:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

- wait a minute, where does it say that regular hives can't handle intergalactic travel with a proper hyperdrive? its easy, first of all, they have an intergalactic hyperdrive, so they wouldn't drop out every few hundred lightyears, more like every few hundred thousands. its like 3 million lightyears from atlantis to earth. and plus, they can stop on the way and pick up tons of humans. its possible that this was from the aurora report hives. time moves the same in realities but things can happen in a different order so tis possible that this time, we didn't have all of these ships and asgard beams. the asgard mgiht have chosen to not give us anything be4 their demise. —SupremeCommander 23:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I also thought that the Wraith could make it to Milky Way and Earth with regular Hives, but I wasn't sure so I didn't mention it. It may take months/years, but they would make it, because why would they be so determined to find the location of Earth if they didn't have the means of getting there? It's like the South Park episode, Phase 1: Find location of Earth; Phase 2: __________ ; Phase 3: PROFIT!
Ok, given that the only real argument towards the theory that it's a ZPM powered Hive Ship is that it (somehow) made it to Earth, and the arguments against that theory are much more feasible, I'm going to remove that section of the article. —Ka'lel 06:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


watch the episode again, the hive that came to earth in the AR, was a REGULAR hive ship.. watch and see that it has a hole in the middle, the super hive doesnt.

I think we should be more specific about its resistance to drones than just "nearly impenatrable to". It was stated in the episode that the Wraith were afraid of pitting it against the Antarctic drones so perhaps they knew that a great enough number - or perhaps a different type or formation (a drill like in Lost City as oppose to a barrage like in EaTG) - would be more effective against it. Just seems worth mentioning - but not using that wording probably. Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 15:24, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

New Class?Edit

Do you think that the new Hive Ship should be a new class? Here's the case: It was a Hive Ship, but was modified. It is far larger and more powerful than a Hive Ship and it looks different. So what do you think? -Railgun88 01:01, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

no, its like saying the odyessey is the different class than the daedalus and apollo just cuz it has a zpm. its jsut a suped up hive ship.


"Suped" up or not a hive powered on 1 zpm SHOULD NOT have been able to defeat atlantis powered by 3 zpms within a minute when it would have taken several days for an army of hives without a zpm to have the same effect on atlantis with 1 zpm. There must be a plothole that was not mentioned. pyrolord (talk) (Contribs) 21:36, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

why not tell the other wraith ships of earths locationEdit

in the episode, it says that no other wraiths were coming because only the zpm powered hive could pick up the signal from another reality. however, why didnt kenny just relay the coordinates to other ships that were allied with him. it wouldve helped quite a bit —ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 00:30, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

on an unrelated note i think the internal stargate should be mentioned —ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 03:23, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
The other ships would have had to undergo modifications to their hyperdrives which would have slowed kenny down, and maybe he was arrogantly obsessed with conquering an entire galaxy with one ship.--99.148.24.180 12:35, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
true, he also may have wanted to get there as quickly as possible ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 22:28, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
Well, Kenny may not have had others loyal to him, he were supposed to be loyal to Todd, but betrayed him, and perhaps nobody else was loyal to Kenny, aside from the crew of the ship. He may also have desired to take Earth as his own new hives breeding/feeding ground, and subsequently rule the milky way galaxy.74.129.75.153 00:50, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Why share the richest feeding ground of two galaxies? —Supakillaii (talk) (Contribs) 03:19, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

stargateEdit

why didnt' they have some sort of iris-style shield on the gate, also why was it so empty on the inside ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 03:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Because the Atlantis reconnaissance teem needed one last chance for a shoot-em-up, lots of enemy planets in stargate logically should have gate-shields, but it would provide too much complication to the plot. In universe, maybe the Wraith lacked the knowledge to build a shield seeing as they never have had to permanently guard a stargate before do to their nomadic nature--99.148.24.180 12:33, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
surely though they must have realized its a massive vulnerability especially since there arent even that many guard troops inside ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 05:48, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Evidence of Kenny in Homecoming Edit

Kenny was given the Wraith name Bonewhite in the book Homecoming. He is still Todd's Hivemaster and Second in Command. He is not the scientist who stole Todd's ZPM powered hive. Orbofnight (talk) (Contribs) 15:01, March 6, 2011 (UTC) orbofnight http://mescott.livejournal.com/4096.html#cutid1


its not canon


Although portrayed by the same actor, Kenny and the other Wraith had different tattoos, hair, ranks, and voices. Homecoming is considered quasi-canon and should be documented as such, just as was done for Guide and Steelflower. Orbofnight (talk) (Contribs) 17:05, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

I have now removed the information from Bonewhite's page and moved all the articles accordingly. Please feel free to change over the information on the other pages you've noted and add as much information as you like from Legacy: Homecoming. I'd do it myself but it's currently 3am and I'm going to sleep. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 03:06, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Why the name change? Edit

I am just wondering why the name change? The page was called ZPM powered hive ship because it was powered by a ZPM. Or just ZPM Hive. Please, no heated discussions. MysticalNut 16:44 June 24 2013

Well, I didn't make the change, but I'm guessing that (i) it's shorter, (ii) it's flashier, and (iii) McKay starts referring to it that way about midway through the episode, which is usually the way the show introduces 'easy-to-remember' names (often based on the viewers are morons trope). Never mind that 'ZPM powered hive ship' is more accurate and informative than 'SuperHive'. But that's more of a comment on on-screen dumbing down than on the decision to change the name of the page here.
89.102.133.166 00:22, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

SizeEdit

Is there any sort of reference on the size of this thing relative to a normal hive (or anything else that there's good size reference for for that matter -- which granted on this show isn't much) besides 'much larger than'? I know there's the side-by-side shot with Atlantis, but what is the size of Atlantis? :-/

89.102.133.166 00:12, December 17, 2014 (UTC)

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