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once again, its not like the wraith went up against the whole fleet, they would pick off certain ships and flee if they came up against to many aurora vessels. [[User:Escyos|Escyos]] <sup>([[User talk:Escyos|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Escyos|Contribs]])</sup> 06:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
once again, its not like the wraith went up against the whole fleet, they would pick off certain ships and flee if they came up against to many aurora vessels. [[User:Escyos|Escyos]] <sup>([[User talk:Escyos|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Escyos|Contribs]])</sup> 06:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
I know the Wraith wouldn't go up against the whole Ancient fleet intentionally - but why wouldn't the Ancients gather their full force and launch a mobile campaign to eliminate as many Wraith as possible with as little risk as possible? It's what I'd do up against an enemy with far superior numbers.

Revision as of 10:09, August 20, 2010

Anychance somebody could explain why Atlantis is very different to SG1? The operation is much less military and the episodes seam to feature only a couple of leads (instead of 4)

The reason why there is less militirisation in SGA is because the Atlantis Expedition mostly comprise of civilians and scientists, it is set in a non-military base and the leaders are civilian (apart from Carter of course). That should aswer your question. :) Matthew R Dunn 00:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Um, I'm very tempted to take out the plot section of this page as it practically summarizes Season 1 of Stargate Atlantis. Although if I did that, there really wouldn't be an article left. So I guess what I'm saying is, what could we put in place of the plot section that would make sense. And if we can't find anything, we should take out the plot anyway (as a last resort).—Anubis 10545 05:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Stargate Atlantis: May you rest in peace.—Anubis 10545 02:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Petition for renaming the article (slightly)

Should we change the name of the article? The heading of this article is the only place I can find where the title has a colon in between "Stargate" and "Atlantis". In all other places, it's titled simply as "Stargate Atlantis," not "Stargate: Atlantis". For that matter, none of the other series titles feature a colon, either.

As far as I can tell, "Stargate: Atlantis" should just be "Stargate Atlantis". Thoughts?

Supergeek Mike (talk) (Contribs) 00:07, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

there's your answer. it has a colon on the script but none on the mgm site. ASDF1239 DISCUSSION 02:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Problems With Atlantis

I've recently been watching my Atlantis DVD collection, and on further thought have several problems with the series - largely to do with the idea of the Ancients losing the war, for a start how did the Wraith EVER get the numbers to defeat enough Ancient ships to steal the ZPMs to power their cloning facilities, why didn't the Ancients temporarily disable the gate network and use the Attero device and defeat them, why didn't they just wait eventually the Wraith would have run out of food - they need to go into hibernation to allow the human populations to regenerate - the Ancients could have waited until they did and wiped them out or the Wraith would have turned on each other and wiped themselves out, etc etc The Ancients were far superior technologically so it seems implausible if not impossible that they would have lost - anyone have any theories to counter my ideas??

1. the ancients were overconfident and sent their ships into wraith territory and were surrounded by ships and lost the battle. the wraith took the zpm and used it to clone their warriors hundreds of times.
2. because that would interfere with the ancients and the humans who try to escape the wraith only to find the gate has been disables and i doubt that the council would risk turning on the attero device.
3. i imagine that the human populations (and the ancients) were much greater back them when the war started, the wraith may not have needed to go into hibernation as there was more than enough food.
4.technological superiority doesnt win a war. if you have 1 man with a machine gun and 1,000,000,000 men with knifes, who do you think is going to win?

Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 06:18, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

How did they get the ZPMs it is unlikly that the ancients gave them it for there survival. How fast can the man reload the machine gan and how many rounds does he have? A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 12:15, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

the shields failed under the stress and the wraith managed to get aboard. thats not the analogy i was going for, dont get so technical. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 12:20, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
The thing with the Attero Device was something we have discussed before; and no-one came up with a good answer to it. The only thing we really came up with was that it was a secret project that only Janus and his secret team knew about. If they were too afraid to tell the council of their research then perhaps that is one reason - if they had tried to turn off the Stargate Network themselves then the other Ancients would probably just fix it and patch the security hole. Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 17:37, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
If the shield failed the Ancients would have jumped to hyperspace, or if the hyperdrive was not working blow up the ship.A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 19:11, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
Even at sublight it could probably escape the hives - unless engines were the first things targeted. What surprises me is that if they knew they were about to be boarded and would all be killed, why not just overload the ZPM. That could destroy the presumably massive Wraith fleet and anything within a solar system's range if configured to do so. Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 19:34, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
Not at sublight speed the hives would destroy it before it got out of weapons range, but the ZPM overload would work but it would destroy any planets near by.A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 19:42, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
are you assuming they didnt send over a stun grenade like device and stun the ancients when the shields failed, letting them board, take the zpm and also feed on the ancients. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 03:51, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, that covers most of my problems except the first one - The Ancients were overconfident and sent their ships into Wraith territory ok, but how did the Wraith ever develop the numbers and technology in the first place to fight the Ancients - I can't imagine the Ancients would have taken kindly to them feeding off humans under Ancient protection, wouldn't they have wiped 'em out ong before they were ever in a position to pose any real threat? I mean - if I was an ancient powerful race, and I discovered the Wraith I'd annihilate them so fast the war would practically be over before it began.

im guessing that the initially took much of the technology from the ancients, an unarmed wraith wouldnt seem like too much of a threat, if they didnt know that they could feed off them. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 06:40, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

I suppose its possible but it still seems pretty unlikely, I mean stealing a technology is one thing but UNDERSTANDING it is an entirely different thing - it would be like picking up a textbook on rocketry and then building an intergalactic spaceship first try, technology that far advanced is indistinguishable from magic, also without the Ancient gene, they wouldn't have even been able to turn on any Ancient technology. I just can't see any race becoming strong enough, quickly enough to pose any sort of threat/danger to a race as powerful as the Ancients. 09:49, August 17, 2010 (UTC)Mick

the ATA gene came into affect when the war started, im sure the wraith could figure out how to fire the ancient handheld weapons etc. plus they could have tortured the ancients to get them to explain what they needed. plus we dont know how long it took for the wraith to become a threat, it may have taken hundreds of years. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 10:12, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
The Wraith wouldn't have been able to get a stun device in the ship before it blow up or jumped to hyperspace. The ATA gene was into affect before the Ancient went to pegasus, so they dangerous tech wouldn't have been any use.A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 13:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
if the shields were down and they fired a device that attached to the hull and then detonated a stun wave. the ancients may have had their hyperdrives go offline during the battle. and while the ATA gene was used in most of their tech not all of it needed it, and im sure the wraith would have been able to work around that. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 13:56, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
If the ATA gene could be "worked around" then why would the Wraith not have any Ancient ships - we know they captured some when they took the ZPMs. Even the Vanir couldn't crack the Attero device - and that wasn't even built by the Ancient military. The point that the Ancients would never have let the wraith develop is a fair one though - if a totally useless primitive race captured and tortured an Ancient then they might as well have just stabbed themselves with whatever primitive stick-like war implement they were holding at the time, because their little tribal village against an Aurora Class Warship Battleship would have no different outcome. This sorta lead me to believe, back in the days when I watched Atlantis, that the Wraith were the intentional creation of a rogue Ancient or something like that. It would make sense that the Ancients would have organic technology but not use it - as we have seen it has loads of problems from hyperspace radiation to viral infection to just generally being hideous - but for building moderatly powerful vessels quickly, say for a war, it's a pretty good idea. Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 18:36, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
The stun device would have show up on the sensors the ancients would have destroyed it before it got near the hul l(since the Asurans and energy weapons on there ships as well as drones and they coped the ancients).A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 20:03, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
I suppose that boarding an Ancient vessel would be pretty difficult - they don't just leave their hanger bays open like hive ships do; plus darts can't cloak Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 21:59, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
if the ancient ships were suddenly surrounded and the shields overwhelmed because they werent expecting it, they could lose hyperdrive controls and that could allow the wraith to stun the whole ship, board them (The Siege, Part 3) and take over. however as we have seen they will attempt to board even if the ship isnt disabled. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 01:18, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Still doesn't explain their lack of self-destructing though :( You might even think it would be automatic as the Ancients didn't have much problem putting auto self-destruct onto Atlantis Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 02:30, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

if they were unconscious they wouldnt be able to set the self destruct and having an automated self destruct is a dangerous thing, you could set it off by accident. and atlantis NEVER had a self destruct, the expedition merely had a way to overload the naquadah generators to destroy the city. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 02:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Another point I forgot to add, the Wraith - when they were first evolving - capturing an Ancient would have been impossible - the Ancients were highly evolved humans with all sorts of powerful abilities - pychic, telekinetic, enhanced healing, enhanced hearing (possibly all senses were enhanced), etc, then they also possess the most advanced technology in the universe. So I still can't figure out how the Wraith ever developed the technology and numbers to challenge the Ancients.

The point that perhaps the Wraith were a weapon developed by a rogue Ancient is possible and a reasonably good explanation except that there's never been any evidence in any of the series to point to that sort of division within the Ancients - they seem to be a fairly monolithic race.

As to the Wraith capturing Aurora class vessels - the Ancients had the most advanced shields in history, it seems unlikely that they would be overwhelmed quickly enough to prevent the ship escaping into hyperspace or the crew self-destructing the ship - especially since the ship was being powered by a ZPM, which would make the shields nearly impenetrable, and even if the shields collapsed wouldn't the hull of a warship be shielded against stun devices. 05:59, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Mick

if the ancients all had fancy abilities, why did they need a machine to ascened them? answere: not all of them had those abilities, only those close to ascension could do those things. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 06:05, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

because the ancients thought they were invincible and didnt bother with such things, they had never fought anythig like the wraith before. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 06:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Stargate SG-1 Ep 909 - Prototype shows that the advanced human evolution is a process and so even if they weren't at the level of acension they would still possess at least some advanced powers - Khalek wasn't at the level of ascension but still possessed multiple powers and since evolution is a very slow process taking millenia and since we know that some of the Ancients that evacuated from Atlantis ascended - eg Moros became Myrddin/Merlin - it is fairly safe to assume all the Ancients were at the level of ascension or at least very close to it and so would possess some powers as stages of evolution are fairly level across a species - all humans are currently at the homo-sapien stage, as to why they needed the machine - perhaps it was developed to help those not quite there or as a means of research - we know the Ancients researched Ascension. 08:03, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Mick

not really, we know that some of them were close, if not already there, to ascension (Ayianna) and that was 5-10 million years ago, i doubt that they stayed at the same level for that time. if so then why research ascension or create ascension machines? they were close but that doesn't necessarily mean they have abilities. each one of them would have had a choice, either spend your life meditating or hang around doing cool stuff while others figure it out. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 09:12, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt that the Ancients had any proper psychic or psychokinetic abilties - other than *perhaps* healing. Neither on Aurora nor on Before I Sleep did we see any evidence of such abilities - even when it would seem logical to use them. As for the Ancients seeming to be a monolithic race - we can't really say that because we never saw them before the very end of the war (Before I Sleep). Don't forget that they were in Pegasus for a very long time - on Earth, such an amount of time would have caused countless power shifts - enough time for the Nazi's and Soviets and even the British Empire to rise and fall, plus many more if it extended into the thousands of years - so we can see that their society must have changed over the time in Pegasus and we can't judge it based purely on what it was like at the very end. Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 12:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

If the Wraith managed stun the Ancients how did they get aboard the ship. And an Aurora class vessel will survive long enough with its shields under intense strain to destroy most the ships attacking it.A scotsman (talk) (Contribs) 17:19, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Aurora class vessels have a self-destruct, see Atlantis episode 2x09 Aurora - the captain give Sheppard the self-destruct code, which he uses to destroy two Wraith vessels, and I have no doubt a military officer would destroy his ship before allowing it to fall to such an enemy. Also if the Ancients were close to ascension they should have advanced powers - Cassie was only a short way towards becoming a Hok'Ta and possessed telekinesis, O'Neill with the Ancient's knowledge downloaded developed healing and Daniel possessed the full range of advanced powers when playing host to Merlin's consciousness - however the fact that they seem to lack them indicates something of an inconsistency within the Stargate mythology, also with regards to the Ancients being a monolithic race - the war with the Wraith only lasted a hundred years - there are countries on Earth that have maintained a single system of government for that time frame, and the Ancients were an advanced race, and so would surely have developed a stable system of government - the fact that Atlantis remained the centre of their civilization throughout their time in Pegasus is proof of that. And a scotsman is correct Aurora class ships would easily survive long enough to destroy the Wraith or escape especially since the ones the Wraith supposedly captured were powered by ZPMs - they would be essentially impregnable. 09:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)Mick

Another problem, see Atlantis Episode 3x05 Asuras - when Niam shows Weir the Ancients destroying Asuras, there are 8 Aurora class vessels onscreen, even if they were only capable of a 3:1 victory ratio - that would still mean they could take on 24 hives at onces, using hit and fade tactics they could have decimated the Wraith - drop out of hyperspace for a few moments launch drones - which are capable of tracking and engaging targets on their own - and then re-enter hyperspace.

once again, its not like the wraith went up against the whole fleet, they would pick off certain ships and flee if they came up against to many aurora vessels. Escyos (talk) (Contribs) 06:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

I know the Wraith wouldn't go up against the whole Ancient fleet intentionally - but why wouldn't the Ancients gather their full force and launch a mobile campaign to eliminate as many Wraith as possible with as little risk as possible? It's what I'd do up against an enemy with far superior numbers.

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