movie vs sg1 canon in the article Edit
see what i mean? you cant stop it from creeping into the articles. the whole point of origin search would be unnecesary as the DHD doesnt require you to input the point of origin, yet the article includes a sentence on how jackson was looking for the seventh symbol in the movie.Jsir 01:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand what you're saying about the point of origin symbol and the dialing device (DHD), but, in the movie, they didn't know how the DHD worked (especially since it was never actually shown in the movie, at least, not up close). Also, I think that the DHD does require that you input the point of origin symbol, but I think that it is the center activation crystal that you use to input the seventh symbol and so I think that the center activation crystal does more than just activate the Stargate.--Jimmy
- 22:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
- all of you shut up, you dont know what you are talking about, the center crystal in theory could be used for the point of origin but it is not. the dhd requires you to use the point of origin symbol because the gate has numerous function involving all the symbols and different combinations in different numbers. There is any number of explanations
- Listen, it's been acknowledged that there are difference between the movie and the series. The movie premise wasn't meant to withstand a multitude of stores that a tv show would require. They knew that the whole point-of-origin problem would be a pain in the butt—hindering the development of any kind of unique plot, because the team would be more focused on finding that symbol more than anything else. I'm sure there are multimple ways to explain it. I think they could have dones a better job, but what can we do now? Here's what I've surmised: it’s mentioned in the series that, essentially, the point of origin is always the one unidentifiable symbol on the DHD. I’ve never tried to reason it out deeper but, from that I conclude that there are a number of standard symbols that you can find on any DHD, anywhere in the galaxy. Then, there is always one additional symbol unique to that plant. Ergo, the point of origin. If you notice, throughout the beginning of the series, the team members always seem to have a notepad at hand when dialing the DHD---later on in the series that is not the case. My best guess is that they are referencing the standard symbols in order to identify the one unique one. After a while, they’re able to recall them by memory. In the movie you could defend them and say (1) they didn’t know enough about the Stargate to realize this, and (2) they wouldn’t know the “standard” symbols at that point anyway, so it’s a moot point. The only ones they had ever seen were the 7 they found on the coverstone.
Does anyone think the article should mention something about the fact that, sometimes, the point of origin is a constellation used in dialing and address, and other times, the point of origin is a symbol unique to the specific gate you're going out from? I feel it needs something to the effect, but I'm not sure quite how to word it. Cmantito (talk) (Contrib 01:26, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
Wrong Point Of Origin? Edit
One thing came to mind when watching Stargate Universe, which reminded me of an error in SG-1. After the Giza (Alpha) gate was lost and Stargate Command started using the gate retrieved from Antarctica (Beta), they continued to use the same Point Of Origin (something which is mentioned in articles here and elsewhere), even though it was from a gate brought to Earth presumably millions of years after the original gate was frozen. Sure, maybe the dialing computer had no problem and simply sent a signal that the gate accepted. After the Antarctic gate was destroyed, Stargate Command got the other one back from Russia, so that matter was resolved.
However, gate addresses aren't actually gate specific; it should have needed the same Point Of Origin as before to dial out, despite Ra having brought a DHD to Earth with it. That would make it another deviation from the movie, where the Point Of Origin is found in the cartouche and circled by Daniel - a major detail to retcon. I don't know if the Stargate Network can assign a new Point Of Origin, but if so, wouldn't that make one gate unusable (where there are two) unless one gate was actually intended as a secondary gate, as opposed to a replacement like on Earth or moving one gate to a world that already has one - and not a buried or frozen gate that's unusable. I hope this makes sense.
In "Air", Eli mentioned to Dr. Rush that the glyphs are representations of constellations seen from Earth and concluded that the Point Of Origin should be also Earth's to generate a code instead of an address. However, shouldn't it have been the Point Of Origin from Earth's original gate that was needed instead of from the gate SCG currently uses (see previous paragraph)? Dialing an address with two different Stargates on the same planet and connecting to Destiny are two very different actions and if using nine chevrons is a code instead, it should have failed using the Point Of Origin they did. Without knowing where the Alpha gate came from, it's hard to say whether this could be somehow explained away. If not Earth's address, Dakara seems the only other logical choice, given its importance to the Ancients.
Of course, the Point Of Origin that's been used is familiar to people who've seen SG-1, so trying to sell the idea of a different Point Of Origin after all this time, especially given the reasoning behind using all nine chevrons to reach Destiny, might be too much of a stretch.
- I think it's far more likely that they just forgot, I mean the people that actually write Stargate and design the sets and effects don't really give a crap about the technical details because they have no reason to. They aught to hire a team of hardcore fans to check it all before they actually start filming 188.8.131.52 11:52, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
- I thought when I saw it that while he inputed Earth's Point of Origin, the gate actually dialed Icarus Base's but it worked as the way he dialed it.
- The beta gate is older than any other. Perhaps beta's one was the original Terra glyph and later some Lantean designer came up with a new one. Another fact is, because they only had 2 props, Tau'ri glyph can be seen in plenty of stargates outside earth, so I'm not sure why it's an established canon that the point of origin glyph is different for each gate. Given that in most planets the point of origin is a constellation I think it's simpler to think that perhaps it's not really a point of origin, but some way to calculate the route that is calculated in each planet, but is easilly recognizable in the DHD if one knows what to look for (that way, gates are generic but DHDs are not). Earth, being the "homeworld" of the ancients in our galaxy, would of course have it's own and unique symbol. Other singulars points of origin as seen in the DHD could simply be latter aesthetic modifications of the device's buttons by the inhabitants (For example, the one in P7J-989 it's seen in their technology, but it's not seen in any other gate, as opossed to almost every one else). --(Kether)184.108.40.206 04:18, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
I had a similiar theory, read my "All gates have the same glyphs theory" sg27--220.127.116.11 21:48, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
All gates have the same glyphs-Theory Edit
I believe that all gates in the milky-way-network use the same set of glyphs (38 constellation glyphs + at-symbole) with "at" being a special symbol designed for earth. During the series there was never seen a stargate with a unique point of origin on the inner track. Remember, while the gate has 39 symbols, the DHD only has 38, so theres always a missing glyph. (For example: Abydos DHD lacks the Aquila-Glyph) My theory is, that, with the exception for Earth, all stargates uses one of the 38 constellation glyphs as point of origin depending on its position (Chulak uses Serpens-Caput). This would mean, that the unique points of origin-Symbols like Abydos (Pyramid with three moons), the keepers planet (A numer of lines) or the beta-gates symbol (circle with a podest) are only found on the DHD, but not on the gate itself.
it is possible, that the ancients had splited the galaxy in 38 sections, each one resembled by one of the symbols. if you enter the adress, the first six glyphs tell the stargate, which gate should be dialed (or which planet) and the point of origin tells the stargate in which part of the galaxy you curently are. Earth would be an exeption, since it is the first world, a stargate was placed. In "the lost city" Jack identifies the Pyramid-and-Sun symbol as AT, this might be a refference to AT-Lantis.
But if one dont knows where he is, he would have to random dial point of origins untill he can made a conection. so the ancients decide to replace the constellation glyph with a symbol for the planet to make it easier to find the point of origin. (when one wants to dial the stargate on abydos manually, he would have to use the Aquila-Glyph as point of origin.)
Remember, when Daniel uses the stargate on Klorels ship, he dialed the aries-glyph as point of origin and later told the others, that he escaped by dialing the alpha-site with earth as point of origin. Later on when carter found the betagates DHD the "Circle with a podest" symbol is placed where the aries-glyph should be. This means that Earth is locatet in the aries-part of the galaxy and the aries-glyph should be used, when the earth gate is used wiht a DHD, since the at-symbol is not found on any DHD.
The "all gates have the same glyphs-Theory" explains why the DHDs are always missing a symbol and why eli and rush were able to dial the AT-symbole on an other gate than the alpha gate. SG-27
—18.104.22.168 16:23, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
- That's quite interesting, I wonder what others think Sman789 (talk) (Contribs) 17:46, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
- If this theory is correct, the number of gates of the pegasus-network must be increased:
untill now, we thougt the pegasus-gate has 35 constellation-symbols + point of origin which means that there are 35*34*33*32*31*30= 1168675200 possible combinations. But if the milkywaygates have 38 constellation symbols with one of them being the point of origin, (+ at-symbole for special taskes like dialing the destiny), this might also be the case for the pegasus-network which means, there are 36 constellation symbols, so there are 1402410240 possible combinations. (The milkyway dhd has 38 buttons, one for each constellation, missing the at-symbole, since it would be nonsense to place an aditional button on a dhd which is useless since the destiny cant be dialed by a dhd with its weak powersource. The pegasus-dhd has 36 buttons for 36 constellation symboles, which means there is no special symbole like "At")sg-27 --22.214.171.124 16:13, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
- If this theory is correct, the number of gates of the pegasus-network must be increased:
Destinys point of origin Edit
When the destiny-expedition first tried to dial Earth it is said, that they found a 8-glyph adress in the destiny-computers with the 9th symbol serving as distance-calculation, this means, that destiny does not have a point of origin. The symbol which is called the point of origin in the wiki might be the glyph used when dialing a gate in the same galaxy, a other symbol might be needed to access a stargate from the previous galaxy, so the destiny might be able to dial at least gates from the last 35 galaxies it crossed, more if one symbol represents a group of galaxies (first symbol: current galaxy, second symbol for the last 5 galaxies etc.)
It should have been noted, that there are two types of 9 chevron adresses:
1 type: dialing a specific gate, the location does not matter. this type is used on icarus base to reach destiny. this type is a code, rather than a adress. which does not change over the centuries, despite the destiny is traveling. 2 type: used by the destiny-gates: 8 glyphes represent a specific planet (like the binary code, the tauri-computer use for planets, p4x-477 for example) while the 9th being the distance (mentioned while the destiny-expedition first tried to dial earht)
The second type seems to be planet-specific, not gate-specific. Because if the adress they found represents a specific gate, they wouldn´t be able to dial earth because the adress would refer to the beta-gate, which was destroyed. If it refers to a gate, and they would someday be able to dial earth with that adress, it would be the worst mistake ever.
I believe the destiny travels the route, the gate seeding ships had used and notes the position of the gates in its database and sends this to all other destiny-style gates. it has encountered. so if one dials the 9 chevron adress of gate #1384 the gate checks the database for the location of the gate and sends a wormhole to this coordinates. this means that if a gate is taken and placed at an other planet it couldnt be dialed. This would be the reason, why the ancients decided to change the dialing methode from 8 glyphs (Gate-number)+ 9th glyph (distance for energy calculation) to 6 Glyphs (coordinates) + 7th (distancecalculation to another galaxy) + 8th (point of origin, current position)
The 9 chevron adress to reach destiny might be an exception due to the fact it always uses the same symbols, with the last one being neither a point of origin (since at is used while being in the orion-part of the galaxy, ergo not even in the same part as earth (aries-part)) or a distance-calculation (it hasnt changed whend destiny moved)
it would be posible, that since the gate itselve does not know where destiny is it sends a signal from milkyway to the pegasus-gates and further to all other galaxies the destiny has crossed untill it reaches destiny, that leaves the FTL and sends a signal back via the gates to the dialing gate and so the dialing gate knows where the wormhole to send. (this could also explain, why the destiny has a gate bearing, while planetary-destiny-style gates does not, it might be a sensor to detect gates, that dial the code, and why the destiny uses FTL and not hyperspace: hyperspace is a kind of subspace and the gates create a subspace field (mentioned in "window of oportunity") so gates wont work while in hyperspace)
the destiny design might be the first prototype of stargate (as mentioned by eli in an kino-webisode) since the planetary gates lacks the DHDs which might be invented later. The spinning might be a kind of screensaver, because while the remote directly dials the gate and the gate spins so the gate has enough time to check the database and locate the destination-gate. Also the destinystyle gates do not work as good as milky-way-gates: in time the wormhole got instable during the solarflare and the other rush died after crossing the event-horizon. milkyway gates were never seen to get instable when a solarflare appears, due to their improved construction.
the instable wormhole might be an explanation, why Ernest littlefield managed it to heliopolis: When something crosses the event horizon, it is molecular deconstructed and stored in a hyperspatial buffer, (and might be pulled out again, even at an incoming wormhole, why oneil was able to hold the gate open with his hand when he returned with the rouge NID-agents) untill the whole objekt has passed through. ("38 minutes") but when ernest crossed the event horizon he was conected to earth by a rope or something else. An explanation would be that the wormhole became instable and the rope was cut, when the event horizon became grayish.
--126.96.36.199 16:56, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
Discussing "Wrong Point Of Origin?" Edit
In the case of dialing from Icarus Base to Destiny... Well, as Eli said (and we all know), the glyphs on the Milky Way Gate Network are constellations like they're seen fron Earth. And we know that Earth was the capital of the Ancient Society (before Vis Uban) while they were here, in the Milky Way. It's practically obvious to think that Earth's point of origin would have to be the final glyph to be locked to access Destiny... But if the ninith symbol was the Alpha Gate's Point of Origin, and considering that the nine chevron address is a code, could we not think that the Ancients were not planning to use Earth as the Point of Origin to reach Destiny? Could we not think that they were intending to use the planet that originally had the Alpha Gate as gate to be the point of origin to reach the ship?
188.8.131.52 23:09, March 4, 2010 (UTC)Leonardo
- That would also imply that the planet that Ra took the gate from was an Icarus-type Planet or has an extremly powerful Ancient device on it capable of creating insane amounts of power (like the thing from Trinity that puts ZPMs to shame) --Donovan-j-charlie (talk) (Contribs) 01:31, December 19, 2010 (UTC)