Talk: Near ascension

Better images[]

Can someone who has the DVD or some good screencaps please upload better pictures for this article? Mine are just from the Megavideo and 59.com low quality streams and they look awful. Thanks Sman789 21:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. :) If you want good images, may I suggest GateWorld screencaps, since there are better images there. -- Matthew R Dunn 22:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

what to call[]

I was watching the episode fourth horseman part two and i noticed the prior fired what looked like white energy blasts from his hands. Anyone got any pictures of it or have any thoughts on it leave umm here or on my talkpage.User:ShadowofGod

Power[]

Are the abilities both mental and physical like healing and telekenesis more powerful and advanced than that of the wraith?

i find this interesting to know as it would have made the wraith the lesser species during the end of the war with the lanteans and not like their current situation in which they can force humans to do stuff. NH-obi 14:19, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

it doesn't matter if the lanteans were biologically superior. what decided the war in the end was that the lanteans were arrogant foolish cowards who covered up their mistakes behind a clean facade of pacifism and benevolence which successfully fooled the tau'ri. they shouldve been the real enemies of sga. not the wraith, who depend on feeding to survive, or the asurans, who were created and victimized by the lanteans because they were too afraid to get their wise, advanced hands dirty. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 18:13, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

That is a completely untrue and bias view of the Lanteans. We have the bare minimum of facts as to what took place during the war. You're opinion of them is based off every appearance of an ancient; whether they be ascended or not. ¥ Super Novice ↔ Talk ² Me ¥ 18:25, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

we know enough about what took place during the war - the lanteans got arrogant and complacent, screwed up, and after several panicked and desperate projects, they inevitably lost, therefore leaving every human in pegasus at the mercy of the "dark horrible enemy" the wraith (so much for the guardians of humanity). this course of events has been backed up by both the wraith and the lanteans themselves as well as the asurans. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 18:37, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

well that seems right from s certain point of view, and it holds some truth in it as well but still they where arrogant to the point they thought where invincible and while its true that the wraith need to feed they still pose a big threat. and hunted both the lanteans as well as the SGA with intense aggression so its natural that both fought back.only the lantean lack of insight has bothered me during the entire show and also the power they commanded good be used much better than they did. but with the whole power thing i meant more of are they afraid of the wraiths power or could they just face them? if i read the article i think so. NH-obi 19:26, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Your talking about a race of 'benevolent' people who have most likely never seen combat, much less participate in a war before. This going back who knows how far for how many generations. Going that long without having to fight is going to make people forget how to fight properly' thus that would make them naive about war tactics despite their races age. The very fact that it was a quantity over quality war and how it ended tells us that it was a war of attrition. The wraith after suffering massive losses to steal three ZPMs started to make troops and ships faster then the Lanteans could make Drones and ZPMs(something they'd never had to make more quickly in all the time since it's invention). After stealing those three we have no idea if the wraith were able to steal more and more.

Having a quick look through the various methods the lanteans used to try and stop the war I can tell you why they stopped each of them. Here's a few:

Project Arcturus was not their attempt for more power but more power QUICKLY as they most likely never had to surplus the creation of ZPMs which are suppose to last for thousands of years. It failed as we all saw how controllable the project was, nor do we know when during the war they started it or when they abandoned it.
The Asurans, after making the little things and letting them grow how do we not know that the Asurans didn't come to the same conclusion they did 10,000 years later: Kill their food supply encase you forgot. It would be counterproductive to keep the Asurans active. Extremely dangerous to keep them lying around; so they destroyed them believing they'd killed them all after they left.
The Attero device. What do you think the overall collateral damage is going to be to assure the complete and total destruction of the wraith when using that weapon. The thousands of human worlds who don't know what's going on with the stargates are going to activate them thus two worlds are going to be destroyed of life around the gate. They weighted the odds; the near complete destruction of their gate system in the entire galaxy along with the unfortunate deaths of billions if not trillions on all the worlds to activate their stargate. You've obviously seen what that kind of explosion does to a planet, if it doesn't kill everybody it might just set the atmosphere ablaze for those in high orbit.

Attero device. Lanteans transmit a 'stargates off line' message to the gate network (or program one, whatever). Turn the device on. Wraith are destroyed. Turn it off. Transmit 'stargates online' message to the gate network. Problems solved. Ifly6 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 10:53, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

Another thing to remember is this. Most ascended beings, probably the ones who have been ascended the longest are ^&*!@#$%^; mortal ancients have not shown that level of arrogance as seen with Melia, Janus and the Captain of the Aurora. Their rule/law on non-interference is so that no odd ascended being decides to play god. Think of it on our law of committing murder of a tyrant overload or innocent man for revenge of pleasure. No matter you reason it's still against the law to do it so you're going to be punished for it.

We have no idea the state of the galaxy prior to the wraith's emergence too other then it belonged to the Lantean dominion.

No where were the lanteans or the ancients for that matter called the guardians of Humanity. This is all I'm going to post for now so i can recollect my thoughts. ¥ Super Novice ↔ Talk ² Me ¥ 19:49, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Oh yes I remember something else I wanted to say. Helia's arrogance about the Asurans not harming them. Think of it like this: Your skydiving from a plane. An hour ago you checked your parachute to find it in perfect working order. You're going to be confident that upon jumping from the plane you're going to be safe as the chute keeps you alive during the fall to the ground. If someone tampers with your chute without your knowledge your still going to be confident in it's ability to keep you safe as you didn't know someone else touched it. Now replace Ground with Asurans, Parachute with Protection Code and person tampering with the Atlantis Expedition. ¥ Super Novice ↔ Talk ² Me ¥ 20:11, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

the entire war started when they negligently seeded an iratus-inhabited world with humans. if they had done a little advance research and realized that there was a highly dangerous organism there, the wraith's creation might have been avoided. and even then, the wraith and their armada of doom obviously couldnt have sprung out of the ground overnight. the lanteans could have put a stop to them -before- they had managed to take over the planet and amass a fleet of ships large enough to pose a threat. i mean what were they doing while the wraith were busy assimilating the humans and preparing for galactic conquest? at the very least, this shows that the lanteans were either lazy to begin with or didn't care about their human pilgrims as much as anyone had thought. and they do apparently care, at least because they didn't want to kill humans with the attero device later on.
that point aside however, the lanteans still didnt take the new threat seriously enough. in todds (eyewitness) words, "they were powerful but careless, they sent their ships deeper and deeper into our territory trying to weed us out." now that might have been a good approach when the wraith were still a young species recently risen from the iratus bugs, and their inexperience with fighting might have been the reason for their foolishness, but incompetence is not an excuse. especially when as ive said, they had literally at least years of warning. it kind of makes you wonder - seeing how inferior wraith ships are, the lanteans must have been ridiculously inept to allow their ships to be captured.
the asurans. even in such "desperate" circumstances, given the race's eons of experience the obvious dangers of programming nanites to spontanouesly evolve must have been...obvious. the lanteans had absolutely no right to destroy the asurans when they had attained sentient status. they caused the mess in the first place and it was their responsibility to clean it up - without committing genocide. this action really makes them worse than the wraith, especially since the wraith needed to kill humans to survive. it's fairly safe to say that at this point, the lanteans had already lost any claim to a moral high ground, just to get that out of the way. as for killing the wraith's food supply - isn't it more than a bit suspicious that the Ancient nanovirus was programmed to attack humans without harming ancients? hmm...maybe the asurans were faithfully learning from a certain supposed benevolent race.
helia's arrogance was exactly that. the sheer gall that she had to possess in order to attempt to entirely destroy the asurans and then expect them to obey her commands. the asurans were completely justified in destroying or capturing atlantis to gain "retribution". if the tau'ri don't like it, they can leave. and of course there's the fact that helia believed the lanteans were still entitled to control atlantis as a welcome-home reward for what a great job they did against the wraith using it. almost any faciton in the galaxy had a better claim to atlantis - the tau'ri (keeping it working for all that time), the asurans (small compensation for how the lanteans treated them), and even the wraith (spoils of war).
the lanteans, deciding that their arses had been thoroughly kicked because of their own stupidity, decided to courageously sink the city and run from the galaxy to earth, leaving the humans to live with the wraith. some even decided to ascend - without any consequences.
ergo - if the pegasus humans and the tau'ri want someone to blame for the status in pegasus, it's definitely the lanteans, who were not the peace-loving, advanced, wise ancestors they make themselves out to be. they don't have any claim over atlantis, and their screwing over of the asurans was undoubtedly immoral. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 21:02, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

We don't know how the Lanteans/Ancients seed worlds, do they plant the seeds that eventually evolve into Humans of do they actually plop humans on the planet? We only know that eventually during their 5-10 million year reign both humans and the iratus bugs a occupied relatively close area.We don't even know for sure if the iratus bug didn't evolve until after humans were already seeded. Now also remember this they seeded tens of hundreds if not hundreds of thousands of worlds throughout teh galaxy. Watching all of them completely is an impossible task. Some worlds are going to get swept under the rug and or forgotten about from conscious thought. The wraith also don't have a homeworld like we Humans do. They can occupy any area and start building fleets whether the planet has a stargate or not. Searching every planet in the galaxy is impossible.

They took them seriously, if they didn't they wouldn't have fought at all. As I said, first time fighting a war in a long time. The usual tactic of going in shooting probably all they remember as it's always worked. Even against the wraith this tactic worked only they didn't have enough bullets to go around or their shields could take the prolonged punishment. I will concede that we don't know how seriously they took them because when someone always wins everyone is going to get a bit overconfident. A thousand possibilities could have taken place before a ship was captured. hell one of their warships could have been responding to a distress signal from either another non-combat lantean vessel or human ship as humans obviously had ships during the time of the war if the Travelers are anything to go by. Once the warships shields are down to aid the distressed craft, bam the two ships collide, damaging the warships shields irreparably for the moment. Without the shield the hidden wraith on-board or in the surrounding area outside sensor range can swoop in, kill the crew in their way, steal the ZPM, blow the ship to hell and leave. Nobody would be the wiser of what actually just took place, especially if several of these took place simultaneously.

They didn't program the Asurans to evolve they program them to be weapons of war with programs to make sure their weapon didn't turn on them. If your sword bends away from killing your enemy it automatically becomes a horrible weapon, that's why they got the aggression programming. The lanteans destroyed asuras because they were failed weapons. The asurans are not sentient as they don't feel pain or fear death. I'm not disputing the fact the wraith need humans to feed a I see anything wrong with that; aside from the obvious when if effects me. That page is misleading, the nanovirus was made to be used against the Wraith, they had the programming to not to effect the lanteans(ATA gene); effecting humans was just an unfortunate side effect. It comes down to the fact that the Atlantis expedition shouldn't have been touching technology well beyond their understanding.

Stop treating the asurans like people. If the expeditions didn't touch anything they wouldn't be capable of what they currently were capable of. The Asurans were programmed to listen to the Lanteans and not harm their creators. Had nobody touched them they would have done as programed. As for taking back Atlantis; they were in the right no matter how much you dislike it. If you go out to war only to come back to somebody else in your house you're going to tell them to get to heck out, at least until you have a chance to settle down and enjoy being home after being gone for so long.

The wraith are to blame for the status of the pegasus galaxy. Maybe if, and there is no hint of evidence to suggest they were, the Lanteans created the wraith then I'd agree with you. The rest of what you say is just wrong.

Ask yourself this though; where the %*%& were the Ascended when their people were being killed. ¥ Super Novice ↔ Talk ² Me ¥ 22:27, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

- - - - its still a stretch to think that a planet with an organism such as the iratus bug could just get "swept under the rug". if the lanteans indeed allowed worlds to be just "forgotten" like that for possibly millions of years while an enemy evolves, they're irresponsible and negligent. if they lanteans just seeded worlds with humans without checking on them once in a while to see if a killer scourge such as the iratus bug is going to rise, they're still careless. even after the wraith evolved and started growing ships and "feeding on defenseless human worlds" (which would be bound to set off some alarms at the office), the lanteans had plenty of time to notice before they became remotely capable of posing a threat to their powerful fleet.
      - the lanteans' ineptitude and overconfidence is my point. it's part of the reason they are accountable for the current wraith supremacy in pegasus. they didn't even need to use zpms on their ships, its been seen that auroras without zpms can still own wraith ships. it isn't an easy task to "swoop in" and kill a lantean ship's crew and then take it over before they activate self-destruct. also, the travelers developed their ships ages after the war had ended.
      - the lanteans did program the asurans to evolve and adapt which is how they got to human form in the first place. the lanteans were obviously unprepared to deal with this, so they commited mass murder. the asurans -were- sentients, they replicated to take the most "advanced form" which was human with all the emotions and thoughts of the human brain. the facts are that the lanteans panicked, screwed up on their project, and could not take responsibility for the consequences, thus covering it up and destroying all traces of it. yes you could say that the lanteans never saw the asurans as sentient beings but that point of view is flawed. morally it would be the same thing as ending their human-seeding project by wiping out all the humans. i am reminded of the relationship between the goa'uld and the jaffa, who essentially function as "weapons" so the goa'uld dont need to get their hands dirty.
      - they could have modified the nanovirus to ignore pure human dna and only go for iratus dna. it wouldve been simple enough. the fact that they didnt do this makes me wonder if they had also tried the killing food supply strategy.
      - the lanteans did create the wraith no matter how you look at it. if they had not seeded the iratus bug planet (s) with humans, the wraith never would have evolved. that by itself might have been excusable if the lanteans had acted with some semblance of competence and defeated their enemy, but nope they failed pretty badly and left the galaxy to suffer the wrath of the wraith.
      - atlantis was no longer their "home". they had lost the right to live there when they fled the galaxy and abandoned the city. who kept it functioning all this time against constant threats? the tau'ri, who are admittedly not much better ethics wise because of their similar view of asurans and wraith. they really have no right to decide if the asurans and wraith should live. it's not their galaxy and they caused the deaths of millions of pegasus humans by exploiting the asurans and creating michael, both of which are morally objectionable in the first place. it's also interesting how the team found the asurans arrogant and not the lanteans. notice how the team acted right at the beginning when meeting the asurans - they criticized their entire way of life and history then demanded zpms as if it were their obligation to help.
      - the ascended ancients didnt get involved because of their non-interference law, which is fine with me. by moving to a higher plane of existence, they lose the right to control things in this one. if they did intervene, they would be as bad as the ori. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 00:58, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed the whole thing that the wraith could develop to their current level of power is just to much for such a race as the lanteans to mis out on. i mean the probably could evolve to some level but not this stage otherwise the lanteans would have to very stupid and not near asscencion worthy to be fooled for millions of years. NH-obi 21:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)