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Aurora-class battleship is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Stargate Wiki community. If you can update or improve it without compromising previous work, please do.
I know that aurora was originally built by the lantean but some things prooves that there were upgrade on this class like the tria being equiped with a ZPM generator or TRIA being upgraded with a lightspeed capable engine.
But the asurans seem to have standard aurora.The asuran aurora seem to be less powerfull than the orion or other ships.We could admit that the asuran aurora class is MK1 and other ships are improved versions.
And another things asuran aurora class seem to have no or few drones during the battle of asuras.
The only moment when they use drones is when an asuran aurora is attacked by a drone salvo launched from the traveller's aurora:
So we can assume that the lantean never gave the drone plans to the asurans but they gave the plans for the MK1 aurora.
Or they made a code in the asuran code to prevent them to produce drones.
That could explain why the asurans do not use the aurora main weapons during the battle of asuras because if they would have used the drones the tauri alliance would have lost the battle.Masterus1(talk) (Contribs) 12:50, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
Frankly, I think the Asurans must have been undergoing an anti-virus scan, system-wide upgrade, or been running Windows in order to produce the profound lack of performance they demonstrated in the Battle of Asuras. Seriously, 35 Aurora-class ships manned by nanosecond-reaction time, next to infallible, subspace-networked AIs, with unlimited access to ZPMs to boot, should have made mince meat of the ragtag band of brothers (so to speak) of an 'Allied fleet' (what, 7 hives, some 5 Travelers with 1 almost-spaceworthy Ancient fixer-upper, plus all of 2 of Earth's finest), in about all of 10 seconds from their exiting hyperspace. There's the element of surprise, there's the suspesion of disbelief, and, as SevComics once said, there's hanging disbelief till it's dead. And then spacing it. It's a visually stunning sequence, without a doubt, but the underlying logic makes no sense at all.
It's one of the problems of Stargate in general. You introduce the Big Bad, but the 'on the fly' nature of episode creation in shows like this requires that the Big Bad get whopped once every episode (not like waiting a full season to even make a dent in the Shadows -- destroy one single ship, and that with help from The Wise Wizard (Vorlons) -- on Babylon 5). Pretty soon, the Big Bad is by necessity nerfed into something you can whop on a Sunday with a hangover and both hands tied.
Observe: SG-1 Season 1 -- Goa'uld can under no circumstances get a (as in, one) Ha'tak to Earth, or we'll all be bowing to our true god [insert worm name] by the next week. Season 4 -- infiltrating Ha'taks and blowing them to hell is all in a day's job. Season 9 -- the single remaining System Lord cowers in fear in some hidey-hole, the humans having done in several personally and even more indirectly in the past few years, after countless millenia of empire.
ATL Season 1 - Wraith = big bogey, the 'terrible enemy' that defeated the Ancients themselves, the single most powerful race in the franchise. ATL Season 2 (notice how the process goes even quicker here) -- shooting range time with a dozen hive ships, Hermiod, and some nukes. Minus 2 hive ships, 5 minutes, no sweat, no problem. ATL Season 4 -- the Replicators, whose distant, stunted progeny terrorized the Milky Way and nearly drove the Asgard, the Ancients' own protegees, to extinction a few years earlier, get their planet, fleet, ZPMs, and themselves imploded within the course of 8-9 pm (9-10 central).
As I said, this is not so uncommon in TV sci-fi written week-by-week. Just look at the Borg from their introduction in Star Trek The Next Generation (cf. Battle of Wolf 359) to their big whopping in ST Voyager's finale (okay, later novels (ST Destiny) went overboard in the other direction, but that's not on-screen). But Stargate takes this to a whole new level when it nerfs the Wise Wizard (Ancients) as well. The trope of the 'unimaginably old, unimaginably powerful race' is used as a deus ex machina when you need a bailout from a hopeless situation. Sparingly. I guess some nerfing was inevitable if a show is centered on living in the Wise Wizard's magical castle. But by the time the show and the Legacy novels are done with them, the Ancients come off as the worst losers in the history of the universe (hubris, arrogance, moral weakness, lack of foresight, messed up what they could, tried to destroy what they messed up, got bit in the behindus instead), rather than as its most advanced and enlightened race, which is how they began.
And frankly, I'm getting tired of inventing still new and less and less probable convolutions in the gap-filler speculations for the revealed backstory to make all that nerfing and retconning and inconsistency work.
The page states that the Orion variant was 'much smaller than the Aurora variant'. I wonder where that comes from? Careful measurements of HD scenes and official CGI of the Orion (mostly the bridge zoom-in in Allies) got me to about 3,000 m long for the Orion. Also, it seems to me that the bridge is (or was meant to be) identical to the one on the Travelers' Ancient ship; the page states it is smaller (or is that from another one of those 'accurate' MGM Tech graphics? -- those things should be banned :) ). Even if the Aurora was 3,500 m instead of 3,000, I wouldn't call the Orion 'much' smaller.
That is of course unless you believe the canonical, super-accurate information from the MGM Tech Journal :)
The last paragraph of Behind the Scenes (discussing what impacts on scaling with other ships it would have if an Aurora-class were 3 km long) seems to me to belong more on the talk page. Also, IMHO it fails to arrive at a point (it discusses what the length ratios would be to other ships, but that's more or less it).
Finally, I'm not sure that the figures the paragraph lists are all that accurate: Where did the multiples come from? If an Ori warship were 1/3 of 3 km = 1 km, and that were 5 times the length of the Daedalus, then the Daedalus would be 200 m. I think the 'official' size (which in general are suspect in SG, cf. the graphic of the 350 m Orion plus the Taranis hangar scene, where perspective makes it look about that long, that versus other scenes where it's obviously closer to 3 km) of the Daedalus is around 300 m, and screen measurements from later seasons seem to support values closer to 450 m (incl. size of the bridge window, visible on later models in zoom-ins). And the Traveler ship would only be 100 m long if Daedalus were 200 m. That contradicts scenes from Travelers (e.g. Puddle Jumper 'barn swallow').
As for hives, I think the best reference is the superposition of hive and 304 wireframes seen in (I forget the episode, maybe Allies?), where the hive is about 10 times the length of the 304. That would make a hive 2 km long (way too small IMO), whereas if 304 were 470 m (my own measurement result), hive would be almost 5 km, which seems more reasonable to me, and somewhat longer and certainly much bulkier than even a 3.5 km Aurora. Of course, the crater left by the hive underbelly (about half the ship, height-wise) in 38 Minutes is barely 500 m across... :-/
Text copied here:
Of consideration is how a 3 km ship would compare to the rest of the ships fielded by other races. If we use this own site's ship listing as canon, it makes the Aurora-class ship 3 times larger than an Ori warship, approximately 15 times larger than a Daedalus-class ship, consequently 30 times larger than a Traveler vessel, listed as approximately half the size of a Daedalus-class. Each Aurora would also be larger than individual Hive ships, as a Hive ship is considered 13x larger than a Daedalus.
Now that I have Stargate Atlantis in HD I have found that the Aurora ships, all of them, have a great many turrets. As you will see in the following screenshot compilation:
So now that we know this, the article has to be edited to reflect this new, and irrefutable, evidence of energy weapons. On all known Aurora-class battleships, not just Asuran.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 13:54, February 29, 2016 (UTC)
It's ironic that these turrets were actually visible even on the TV and DVD releases, but still this wiki stated that only the Asuran's ships had them. The very first look at a functioning Aurora-class battleship, the Orion, we see the turrets, and that's also the best look we ever get of them.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 20:17, February 29, 2016 (UTC)
In every appearance of the Aurora-class battleship, they have been depicted armed with turrets, and while it's true that only Asuran piloted ships have ever been seen firing the turrets, we cannot state that the turret weapons are "no longer equipped on the Lantean-built models of the class" since we can clearly see these turrets on the Orion, Aurora, and Traveler's Aurora.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 20:35, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
The Traveler's Aurora (same 3d model as the Orion) has turrets in the exact same place as the Asuran version, and the circled Asuran turrets were seen firing in Be All My Sins Remember'd.
Granted there are minor discrepancies with the older Orion 3d model and the newer Be All My Sins Remember'd 3d model, one seems to have 4 turrets and the other 3 turrets, among other things.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 20:58, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I just re watched the battle scene from Be All My Sins Remember'd, and apparently I never paid attention to where the weapon bolts were actually coming from. I commend you for your work in figuring out the turret locations.
On the article, I replaced the image you included to one that shows an array of the turrets firing, as to make the turret's and their location appear more distinct (in the previous image, I couldn't tell where there turrets were, and it could have potentially confused other usera as well).
Furthermore, I adapted the line: " They have been seen being used only on the Aurora-class ships utilized by the Asurans..." to include that they are only seen being used by the Asurans, but took out the speculation that Lantean Auroras may not have them. -Anubis 10545(talk) (Contribs) 22:29, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
I made another gif that shows in slow motion how an energy blast is fired from one of the turrets. This should be clear enough so that everyone can see the turret in clear action.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 22:47, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
An Aurora-class battleship possibly using Lantean Pulse Turrets in the Asuran genocide.
As for the mention of the turrets never being used by the Lanteans, I don't think that needs to be said. For one thing, unless I remember incorrectly, the Asuran's have never fired drones from their Jumpers (and that's clearly not something worth mentioning.) And for another, there may be evidence of Lantean Aurora using the pulse weapons. In a still image that looks like a beam, but in video it's clearly a pulse. Very hard to see in DVD quality.
EDIT: And one final point, since Asuran tech is just copies of (possibly older) Lantean tech, than Lanteans must have used these pulse weapons at some point. As for the Aurora's surviving to this day: The Orion was badly damaged and firing a single drone salvo killed it, The Aurora was totaly busted, The Tria just flew by. That just leaves the Traveler's Aurora, and with so many shots flying every which way, there can be no evidence of them NOT using the turrets. In conclusion. The Aurora couldn't fire any weapons, The Orion fired a single drone salvo (it's most powerful weapon) and was destroyed, The Tria had no reason to fire any weapons, and the Traveler's Aurora could very well have fired it's turrets.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 22:59, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
I wanted to include the line "they have been seen being used only on those Aurora-class ships utilized by the Asurans" because it seems relevant to the reader. We've never actually seen an Asuran piloting a puddle jumper (with the exception of the replicator First Atlantis Reconnaissance Team in This Mortal Coil.) We know that both the Asuran cruiser and Asuran-built Auroras used drones (as seen in This Mortal Coil). Clearly, both the Asurans and Lanteans used drones. However, the only confirmed instance of the pulse weapons is by the Asurans in Be All My Sins Remember'd (and potentially also lifeline).
My main motivation here is to contend that Pulse weapons turrets appear to be present on all Aurora-class ships. However, they are only seen being used by the Asurans because we have only seen the Asurans use them.
On a side note - In my personal opinion, it's a bit hinky to assume that the Lantean ships ever had pulse weapons simply because we went 4 seasons without ever hearing about them. (Note the half-spherical Asgard plasma beam weapon turret nodes present on the neck of the BC-304. These nodes are clearly seen firing plasma beams in this image, yet those same half-spherical nodes were present on 304's well before the plasma beam weapon was even invented, as seen in this image of the Daedalus. Clearly, the effects team used an already-existing structural element on the 304 and decided to use it as a turret once beams were invented. It is possible that same thing occurred with the turrets on Aurora-class ships.)
Sound arguments. In the end we are getting to very minor details here. It took a lot of work to provide this much evidence to prove that Lanteans had these turrets, even though they were present on the Aurora and the Orion well before the Asuran's were even introduced. And clearly visible even on TV quality. The only evidence left to ponder over is the gif I provided from Progeny. That ship is clearly Aurora-class, and not a cruiser. The weapon it fires doesn't match any drone firings, but the energy pulse is also a bit longer than the ones fired in Be All My Sins Remember'd. Although some of the weapons fire seen in Progeny resemble the pulse firings from Be All My Sins Remember'd, I can't find any better images of them being fired from ships.
The shot is fired from a location that has a confirmed turret in more than one episode and shot of an Aurora-class ship. There is no evidence to suggest a third weapon. So if it isn't a drone, doesn't that prove that it's a pulse turret firing?
An Aurora-class battleship possibly using Lantean Pulse Turrets in the Asuran genocide.
Also about the change in turret pictures. Just to confirm, when you said "I couldn't tell where there turrets were" you meant that you couldn't see where on the Aurora-class ship they were, and not where in the screenshot they were? Probably an unnecessary clarification, but the coloring of the turret and the ship could possibly make them hard to see. I still prefered the original turret image on the pulse turret page, as like in the Destiny pulse weapon page, the image should show the clearest picture of the weapon itself, not it's placement on any ship. On the Aurora page, the image of the turrets firing is okay, as that page deals with the ship.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 00:20, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Haha, man, we have gotten ourselves into quite a discussion here. I'm sure I've been thinking about this way too hard.
My point about the image was that there's quite a bit of clutter on the hull of the ship (a lot of "chunky" pieces), and so it made finding the turrets (the actual focus of the image) difficult. Though if you prefer the original image over the one I selected, I have no issue with you putting it back. -Anubis 10545(talk) (Contribs) 00:31, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Also, as for the scene in Progeny, I've always just assumed they were low-quality drone weapons and they made them blurry, amorphous yellow blobs to save budget. If that's not the case, then they would have to be pulse weapons. -Anubis 10545(talk) (Contribs) 00:35, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
File:DaedAsurasOpenSalvo11.jpgFor example, the rail gun projectiles on the image to the right look more like generic yellow blobs than the rail gun fire we've seen in other episodes. -Anubis 10545(talk) (Contribs) 05:14, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Final evidence of drone and pulse weapons
" The only moral way to change someone's mind—make them see the truth, as you put it—is to present evidence."
After this I'm all out of convincing evidence. These images clearly show two types of weapons being fired by the Lanteans. The yellow energy weapons rapid fired in straight lines and the individual blue-ish projectiles fired one at a time, leaving a smoke trail behind. In The Tower we can clearly see that drones can leave a smoke trail behind them. The only argument against my theory of pulse weapons and drones being used, would be the blue-ish color of the projectiles, but given the nature and the generally unnatural color of the "vision", and the fact that there's no evidence of the Lanteans ever using other types of projectile weapons, there's not really any viable counter evidence. And since the weapons are fired in the same CG scene, there can be no technical limitation arguments of the special effects used.--Uriel718(talk) (Contribs) 12:55, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
