Talk: Asgard plasma beam weapon

(discussion snipped)

Asgard Plasma Beam Weapons have been named as such in Be All My Sins Remembered, by Rodney mckay (ATl: s05E19). the quote being "if this plan fails you can go shoot with your new plasma beam weapons".

Thekillman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 16:13, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hey! Do you guys know what the people on GateWorld call these weapons...Uber Beams! LOL...User:Phoenix304

yes, and Deathrays, Uberrays, DeathBeams, and any combination of them, some with Asgard mixed in. Thekillman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 16:13, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Power

how much power do we think it would take to super heat this plasma.

Lots reletive to real earth technology (probably ridiculous amounts), but presumably not a lot reletive to other stargate technologies as you dont need a ZPM to use them. Sman789 14:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the fact that Earth has naquadah generators. The real problem with plasma weapons though is containing the plasma, which would take far more power than superheating it.—AscendedAlteran 17:11, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

They probably just use the Asgard core and beam transporters to replicate new plasma rather than store it.-Ascended 999 21:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not talking about containment in that sense. I'm talking about keeping the plasma in a cohesive stream once its discharged towards a target. —AscendedAlteran 01:38, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

(lack of) originality

FreeSpace 2 Beam Turrets, anyone? -->Suicidal Tendencie File:Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 17:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Lol, can you think of a better idea for a weapon that they could have used instead of normal pulse weapons?

What about tweaking the beam weapons to fire constantly?--Amitakartok 19:39, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

That would just melt the weapons Sman789 20:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

good luck inventing an original weapon. maybe one that shoots Chickens. oh no, that's been done. lasers. no. slugs. in 1000 variants. in the end there just are three types of weapons: anything like a missile, anything beam-y and anything pulse-y.

Thekillman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 16:13, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

attack the wraith

with these ridiculously overpowered weapons why don't the tau'ri just go and actively hunt the hive ships and blow them up in a few shots —Asdf1239 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 06:19, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly. If all 5 active Tau'ri ships went on a joint campaign and used guerrilla tactics (much like the Phoenix)... everything would be great. And... Odyssey with its ZPM could definitely do some damage. —Anubis 10545 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 06:22, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but as I know that you know (Anubis10545), and perhaps most of the people here (I hope), that Odyssey is currently un-available. Would you like to contact the Daedalus for now? —Supakillaii ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 06:45, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

what an epic cliffhanger, they leave the fate of the odyssey a complete blank at the end of the entire show —Asdf1239 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 07:15, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

... well, not really. Odyssey was just occupied with another matter. It doesn't seems like a cliffhanger, it just seems like a day in the life of a starship. —Anubis 10545 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 07:24, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

they couldve said that its just somewhere else instead of throwing in a top secret mission that isnt going to be elaborated upon...until the atlantis movie, -if- its going to happen —Asdf1239 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 07:30, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

The Odyssey was busy carrying people to Icarus Base at the time of the ZPM Powered Hive Ship issue and didn't have enough time to get to Earth. --Donovan-j-charlie ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 11:01, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

wasnt that the george hammond not the odyssey ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 11:42, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Differant mission. Jauh0 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 01:30, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

uhh

"..., they require an extended period of time and significant power to charge. The advantage of plasma beam weapons lies in their ability to come online and charge at an incredibly rapid rate (using up relatively little power in the process) and deliver several consecutive shots in only a few seconds"
does anyone else see a problem with this excerpt? ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 09:18, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

No, but you're more than welcome to enlighten me... :D Sman789 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:06, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

well, it contradicts itself in the next sentence...extended power of time and significant power to charge...come online and charge at an incredibly rapid rate using little power in the process? sounds like clever joke to me... ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 23:14, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

which is it people? fast-charging and power efficient or slow charging and power-guzzling? we need to decide. i'm surprised this hasn't been called out as "vandalism" yet. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 01:59, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Didnt it used to say something to the extent of, it can be charged relatively quickly using little energy, delivering a less powerful shot, or take its time to charge using a lot more energy, to deliver a much stronger shot, relative to the amount of energy/time used/taken, while it does reach a maximum charge, and require at least a certain amount of time/power to get a minimum charge? I would also guess the components can only transfer a certain amount of energy, so a ZPM really cant make it far more powerful.74.129.75.153 03:19, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

i don't recall seeing anything like that happen what episode is it in ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 03:48, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

No, I beleive that is generally what the Wiki used to say, that it could fire in several different modes, a more rapid fire mode, and a longer charging mode, for more damage, but someone edited the wiki, and now it makes no sense.74.129.75.153 08:16, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it came from the Jaymachs Crazy DVD magazines which override the show when it comes to canon sources of information,74.129.75.153 08:17, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

be careful what you say about those things you don't want to be banned ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 08:20, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

aha theyre referring to the lantean satellite weapon when they say it takes a long time to charge. ima edit it for clarification, false alarm sorry for making a small ruckus out of it ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 08:22, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

hahah, it's taken out of context. the first part of the blurb is talking about the Ori beam weapon. The second part is talking about asgard plasma beam weapons. Plasma beams are quick to charge and fire rapidly. ori beams don't. ori beams are pure energy I believe. —SupremeCommander ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 22:27, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

no, as i said earlier, it's about the lantean beam weapon. ASDF1239 ^DISCUSSION 02:58, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the Lantean beam weapon has more raw power in it, and the Asgard beam is more about disruption or pirceing of shield modulations not the amount of energy in it. Tau'ri ships do not have the powerplants for rapid firing of a raw power based weapon well keeping the shields up and powering other systems.The Asgard would have known that. They may have designed it specifically for Ancient/Ori shield modulations and by extension Goa'uld shields. Who knows how effective it would be against Nakai shields, Serrakin shields ect. I do believe they would have effect on other shield types however. They could be just as effective against other shield types as they are against Ori shields. Then again, maby not. I do not suppose we will ever find out. I wonder if a Z-pm could make the Asgard beam even more uber. Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 13:33, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, here is how a friend of mine thinks the beam could work-His Framework explains it as being a semi-continuous stream of a highly energetic Kiron field, which is also set to a frequency and phase common for Ancient and by extension Ori shields. The APBW itself is not uberpowerful, but it's just right for easily kicking Ancient shield technology, and thus Ori and by extension Goauld technology. it's a more advanced version of the tech they used against the Goauld, and a similar technology to the Tollan Ion Cannons.

Hope this is helpfull.Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:17, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

You only have visual evidence of a computer generated effect in a a fictional television series. Isn't there anything more important to think about? Jauh0 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 05:52, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Its more important then your most recent contrib to the page. ;-)

Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 18:04, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

orly? Facts and evidence to the table, please. You've got 24 hours. Look at this picture I made in class, shall we analyze it's contents and assume it's real? Jauh0 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 12:55, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

We know that Kirons are cannon in Stargate, they are mentioned in the episode Small Victories. An energy particle. Meaning, it can be used as a weapon discharge. The Asgard obviously knew about them, meaning they could probably develope Kiron technology.

Two, the Asgard knew that the pulse type weapons used by Goa'uld and Asgard had minimal effect on Ori shields because of the battle at the Chappa'ko. They knew how important it was to develope an effective means of fighting them, so we can assume they developed the weapon to be used specifically against Ori and perhaps Ancient shields, meaning they would have had the weapons operating frequncies adjusted to be as effective as possible on Ori/Ancient shield frequncies. They could have had an idea of those frequncies by analizing the part of the Ancient data base they had AND by scanning Ori shields with there advanced sensors. So the the beam was invented.

Three, the beam effected and eventually pierced Ori shielding, as seen in Unending. But if it was just a raw power based weapon, Tau'ri ships would not be able to fire them as fast as we have seen them fired, I.E when destroying Asuran ships and Wraith ships. Which further supports the frequency theory. Frequencies for shields and weapons are used in Stargate, as seen in Stargate universe.

Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 14:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

If that is not enough, see below. Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 18:20, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Kiron Theory

God the grammar on this page. My eyes are sore.

There are two known facts. 1: Our ships are crap. The only thing making them great is anything with the prefix "Asgard". I must note that "reactor" or "power core" is NOT one of them.

2: APBW's penetrate shields which deal with enormous amounts of energy per second, I.E Ori shields. They took Ha'tak plasma bolts like they were nothing. In fact, the only fluctuation ever detected in the shields was from their own weapon, and it was almost completely insignificant. to deal any sort of damage the APBW does, you need a nice factor 10^5 of energy increase. might require an order of magnitude higher or lower. That's some 10 000 to 1 million times MORE energy than being used right now.

Now you don't need to be a world-renowned scientist to figure out something's wrong here. Tsar-Bomba orders of energy are whisked away. Not to mention, the same happened in "Between two fires" with the Tollan, and in "revelations" with the Asgard.

More magically disappearing energy occurs in any episode where bare hull is struck by energy weapons, not to mention First Strike where an entire beam of energy penetrates solid matter without any interaction, yet it has an output of 1/38th of a ZPM per hour. Planet shattering energies.

I can continue all day like this, but the conclusion is obvious by now: energy is disappearing. But something interesting happens: Common Descent. perfect example. a plasma bolt first strikes the ground and it's pityful. that same bolt makes Destiny rock. Then it hits the Gate and goes CLEAN through.

Coincidence? Perhaps. Convenient? Perhaps. But it brings a fundamental mechanic to the frontline. In my mind an idea sparked: what if Energy weapons are selective. And a second thought came. "Why would they be selective".

Well, the answer? Kirons. They're an energy particle which causes a monopolar attractive force. This isn't even speculation, this is pure fact. Kirons are responsible for a monopolar modulating field, and when that field becomes stronger, they attract. Evidence: pretty much every Replicator episode ever.

So why is this useful? Naquahdah can't exist by normal science. The nucleus would be too big for the Strong Force. The Strong Force is limited in range, and eventually not every nucleon would connect to every other nucleon in the nucleus.

Kirons would generate a Kiron Field (science 101). monopolar attractive. IE, the Nucleus would be kept together by a field of infinite range. By a force similar to Electromagnetism.

However Kirons are energy particles. Something must emit them and absorb them. Pure fact. Since Kirons do not interact with NORMAL matter, you'd need something they WOULD interact with. Hence the Exoton (Exotic particle). a particle which reacts with, well, basically every force. I haven't figured out whether it's charged or not, or that there are in fact two generations of Exotons, one neutral and the other charged.

Now the Kiron within the Naquahdah nucleus would add many, many interesting properties. For one, it keeps the Nucleus together. So Naquahdah now CAN exist. Secondly, it's a monopolar field. thus, no Kiron-neutral atoms. Naquahdah atoms would stick to other Naquahdah atoms at a much greater force than you'd expect based solely on Electrons in the cloud. Result: greater density, greater strength.

Thirdly, it allows a whole damn lot of energy to be stored in the nucleus. More than purely based upon bonding energy. Upon fissioning, that energy is released.

For Trinium it means a much, much greater material strength, at much lower densities than normally possible. The Trinium ion in the metal roster is likely very, very large while the Kiron force keeps the metal together at strengths greater than any Electron bond can hope to achieve.

And Energy Weapons? Well this takes some more paper, but first come the facts:

Energy weapons have a "bandwidth" (thank you Gateworld podcast for the excellent name), on which they operate. if a shield matches this bandwith, the energy weapon has little to no effect. Essentially, the plasma within an Energy Weapon vibrates, in a certain way. The Shield counters this vibration and with basic vibration-theory, they cancel each other out.

Apply what i've deducted and theorized on Naquahdah, and you can say that the Plasma weapon in fact utilizes a Kiron/Exoton plasma. This "plasma" would go straight through any normal matter yet violently reacts with "kironic" materials.

In laymen's terms: The plasma bolt does boom to naquahdah and nothing to dirt.

Additionally: the Plasma we observe in a plasma bolt is waste material used to carry the "charge"/"Field"/"kiron/exoton plasma". Fission some naquahdah to free up energy, Kirons and Exotons. accellerate it down the tube, along the way you "purify" the field (consider it like a supermagnet near some iron to magnetize it) to make it most effective and you have a Directed Energy weapon.

Similarly, a Shield would have to be some sort of structure made of Kirons, Exotons, and potentially some more exotic matter. Perhaps subspace itself. This creates a structure kept together by Kiron Force. The energy field from an Energy Weapon disrupts this structure. Using basic knowledge of Waves, you can say that by matching the Bandwith of the weapon, the shield does not weaken from the plasma blast, but rather uses the energy of the bolt to strenghten itself.

Notice that the latter appears to happen in Ori ships. Similarly with Anubis' ha'tak against the Tollan and Asgard. Thekillman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 15:35, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Killamn, you may step down from the bench. Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 15:48, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

But I like my bench!

Thekillman ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 16:13, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Ok you can sit on the bench for a while.Gormagon ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 17:00, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Wow. Just wow. While this phenomenom isn't new on the internet, it usually takes more time for the VoL to reach this level. Jauh0 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 13:44, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

I love the complete bias on this site for Asgard over Ancients198.99.32.5 18:49, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

It may be that the Tau'ri just adjusted the weapon in order to act like a puddle Jumper against the replicator warships Oberoth20 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:59, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Recent Changes

File:Be all my sins remember'd.jpg

In regard to the line " These weapons have also proven exceedingly effective at destroying Asuran Aurora-class battleships in two hits", I'm assuming the reference is scene depicted in the image to the right. However, given that that particular Aurora-class ship was in the midst of battle, it is likely that its shields were not at full capacity. A better gauge of this weapon's effectiveness against Asuran-controlled Aurora-class ships would be the Daedalus' and Apollo's initial engagement of a single ship earlier in the episode, which required numerous shots to destroy. (I don't have access to the DVD at the moment, so I can't state the exact number).

In regard to the line: " Just one of these beams is capable of overloading and penetrating even the most advanced shields", I am unsure as to where a single shot was shown accomplishing this.

By and large though, the additions made to the article in the recent days have been a great improvement. -Anubis 10545 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 07:26, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, so I watched the episode again (be all my sins remembered) and took some screenshots. These are the first two shots from Daedalus and Apollo's first engagement with the Aurora:

http://i.imgur.com/eVKn9BH.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/0iPsumS.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/ODwlrNS.png?1

Looks like the ship broke where it was hit and the follow up shots seem to have disintegrated it.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that line either. They've only shown consecutive firing and two, three hits of the weapon. So I've removed the one beam part from that line. AncientFan ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 19:27, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Well, they've not shown the Aurora shields light up in any of the engagements with the 304's. And I don't know if that's because the Aurora had it's shields down, or if the beams are able to somehow bypass its shields. You know, it could even be an unintentional mistake on the part of the CG crew. Its all just speculative at this point. 

And I don't know why this post ends up above yours when publish it. AncientFan ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 21:21, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I was thinking the two-shots referred to a shielded Asuran Aurora-class ship. Yeah, after two shots, that ship was basically finished. -Anubis 10545 ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 20:27, September 18, 2016 (UTC)