Talk:Aurora-class battleship

How many drones do Aurora-class's have? Exact number please.


 * No one knows. There is no determined number. —Matthew R Dunn 19:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Aurora-class ships have anywhere from 300-700 drones, though they could have upwards of 3000. —AscendedAlteran 13:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Why can't we add that Asuran warships "possibly or might" carry energy weapons not insted of saying "Asuran warships do carry energy weapons" there are also multiple pictures of turrets on the Aurora's.


 * Because this is an encyclopedia, not a place of speculation. We have never seen them use energy weapons, only drones. And those turrets you see could be anything.&mdash;Anubis 10545 23:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Also how do we know that there are three different designs. For all we know there are only three different bridge designs. Did it come from the official source or did somebody just make a assumption since it's an "encyclopedia".


 * Well, I'm not entirely sure if it came from anywhere official, but because there are three different bridge designs, there are thus three different variants of the class and thus, three different designs of ships.&mdash;Anubis 10545 23:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know about the differences in bridge design, but it seems to me there are only two versions of the Aurora design overall. —AscendedAlteran 08:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Just because there are three different bridges does not meen that one is 3000 and the other is 3500 (Aurora and Orion) but I do agree that the Orion is more advanced because it was built later in the war.


 * The Orion is smaller, definitely. Even if you just look at it's size relative to the Daedalus. That would indicate a serious design change and would only really have been done if there was a major technology refit included, probably more powerful shields amongst other things like upgraded drones like those on Atlantis that Todd says can go through Asgard shields.


 * As for the differences in size: I think it has to do with the fact that each ship seems to have some minor variations, ranging from size to bridge design. So its probably more of an individualization of the ships rather than different designs. —AscendedAlteran 13:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No that would be impractical. During a war you would mass produce all your ships and only change anything like the size or the layout or rooms if you had a new technology or something that needed to have a change in design to be installed, in which case you could change other things as well. Besides, it was like a thousand year war or something, they would have changed and upgraded their ships massive amounts several times in that period. Look at how far asgard weapons and shields came in just 10 years, even look at how fast our technology advances in the real world. —Sman789 17:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but not only did the Ancients think they're ships were invincible at first, they had also been advancing for millions of years. Most of their technology was as developed as it was going to be. But I do think they probably did upgrade the drones and shields at least, since they probably hadn't been in a war since they split with the Ori. —AscendedAlteran 00:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Well personally I completely disagree with that comment. First, I don't think that you're technology can ever be "as advanced as it was going to be". And second...If that was the peak of their technology, then the Ancients sucked with passion!! Sure the ZPMs, and drones were powerful. But first, though strong, projectile weapons are impractical for ships that get isolated. Second, other than the city ships, their ships weren't too good.


 * Let me clarify the "advanced as its going to be" comment. I meant that a lot of their technology had likely reached its peak performance to the point that you couln't make anymore improvements. Look at our tech development: whenever a technology of ours begins to reach what we consider to be the most we can get out of it, we move on to another form of the technology. The new technology might be radically different from the old in the specifics, but it achieves the same results with more efficiency. The Ancients had been developing technology for tens of millions of years. I honestly think they had exhausted every previous form of their current technology by then. That's not to say that they would no longer be able to develop entirely new technology, but that their already existing technology had likely reached its pinnacle in effectiveness. To answer your point about the impracticallity of projectile weapons, drones can attack an enemy coming from any direction, regardless of where they're launched from. And to your second point about the low quality of Ancient ships, the only ships the Ancients ever needed before the war was gateships, since they mainly traveled via Stargate (which was far more effective than a ship). —AscendedAlteran 07:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

You all keep saying that the Asurans only had access to early Ancient tech. But my argument is, how do you know they came early in the war. They were desperate to attack on a smaller scale. That means the war was already going sour. Plus they took a while to develop to Ancient form. So you can't honestly say it was at the beginning of the war.

Another comment is, if the tech was as high as it ever would be, then why was a brand new Asgard technology far superior. And why can't the drones penetrate our shields. Now don't hand me any of the "our shields are set up to stop them" or "those were old drones" crap. When did the Asgard ever need to guard against drones? And even if they were old drones, how would the expedition know that. I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't send our ships under drone fire if we weren't positive that they were safe. We would have known if our drones could penetrate anyway. And I know this is long so I'll make this end quickly. I know about the Apollo over Asuras during the raid, and I know what Todd said. But I don't think we can honestly speculate about this. —User:Phoenix304


 * For your point about the Asgard facing drone weapons, Asgard shields wouldn't be designed to specifically withstand drones. They would be designed to resist as many forms of weapons fire as possible. And they could have just used drone weapons as a basis for some of their shield designs because other races might develop a similar form of technology. As to the Todd comment, I think Todd was either completely disregarding the shield, just underestimating it, or actually overestimating drone weapons; likely a combination of the latter two. Even if he wasn't forgetting about the shield, he had no way of knowing about the capabilities of Asgard tech. Also, the Wraith never bothered developed shields, so they could have considered any form of shield technology to be ineffective against Ancient weapons. For me though it keeps coming back to the Wraith having no idea about the quality of Asgard technology. —AscendedAlteran 07:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Asgard technology isn't really superior its just the new weapons were probably created during the war with the Ori so they were designed to go through very powerful shields like Ori shields. Ancient shields are probably very similar to Ori shields.  So far the only thing known to have penetrated Ancient (or Asuran) shields are the Asgard plasma beam weapons and drone weapons which alongside the Ori battlecruiser's main weapon is the most powerful weapons there are that are installed on ships.  As for the Apollo during the raid over Asuras, it wasn't facing an Aurora class warship and I think it was getting shot at by some kind of energy weapon.—User:WarGrowlmon18 16:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you when it comes to the Asgard weapons being designed to counter powerful shields, but the Aurora-class shields aren't as powerful as Ori shields. The reason I say this is because during the Battle of Asuras, Darts and 302s were able to take out the rear of an Aurora-class ship, and you could clearly see the shield flaring just before the tail was destroyed. I also agree with you on the Apollo comment: it really does look like its being shot at with an energy weapon and not drones. —AscendedAlteran 17:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm that's probably true, my guess is the Ori have had much longer to refine and make their shields more powerful and during the Battle of Asuras the Daedalus did destroy one of those ships with just two shots when it took the Odyssey considerably more to destroy an Ori battlecrusier. Also I think the 302's and Darts were able to get through because their combined power proabably just proved too much for it and the shield was probably already somewhat weakened from the battle already. —WarGrowlmon18 19:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

One more comment. You guys keep mentioning the different varients. Look at our ships. Earth has 2 classes. 2 very distinct classes. Their bridges are different, they have different systems (Horizon, computer core). And you can't accuratly say anything about size. The Aurora was missing large segments, and the three were never near each other to compare. All of your guesses are based off of your interpritation of different distances in relation to a 304. You just can't make that comparison. —User:Phoenix304


 * The different sizes are from the Stargate DVD collections, which are still considered an official source no matter how much it might seem to contradict on-screen evidence. As for the different "variants" in design, the director of "Inferno" justified the difference in bridge design between the Orion and the Aurora by saying that the Orion was a "luxury edition" of the Aurora series. —AscendedAlteran 07:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Asurans must have been created a while before the end of the war because for the last 10 or so years the Ancients were loosing and wouldn't have been able to (or found it neccessary to) spare all the ships that you see on "Progeny" attacking the Asuran homeworld, especially seeing as the Asurans were no threat to them. As for Asgard weapons being superior, we only know they can destroy older Asuran ships, we don't know if they can destroy Ancient ships as easily as they have the newer stuff like shields that are the one thing that would have been improved constantly during a war. Todd would probably have been right about the Asgard shields not being able to resist Ancient drones because he has all the specs and it would have been the first thing he checked after stealing a new ship. If drones could bypass Asgard shields than the 304s and Auroras would be about matched in power, and even if they couldnt, as long as they launched a dozen drones they would destroy the 304 anyway even if the Aurora was destroyed. You say about saturating how advanced you can get in a technology and then having to make a new one, well, thats evidence for Aurora varients, apart from the massive differences in the technologies built into shields and drones that would change their powers significantly being developed since the Asuran wiping out, the size differences of the new technologies and other properties such as heat and radiation emmisions could require the entire layout of the ship to be changed to accomadate them. SO now and again there would be a full design change. This means that the power and abilities of Asuran ships could be waaaaay off the power of newer Auroras, and their drones and shields. Really, we have to wait for a battle between some live Ancients using up-to-date technology and the 304, but its safe to say a newer Aurora class ship would be at least a bit stronger and it is likely its drones can go through Asgard shields. Last part of ramble, why would Ori shields be anything like Ancient ones, they disected millions of years ago and Ori shields are made with ascended knowledge, and with all the major technology changes the Ancients would have made during the Wraith war, I doubt theyre even close. Proof is that Ancient ones contour around the hull. Sman789 17:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I seriously doubt that Todd would have looked at the specs for any of the technologies. If he did, the only one he would really bother to look at would be the hyperdrive. I agree with you that Ori shields would be different from Ancient shields, but I think Ori shields are stronger than the ones on the Aurora-class. As I stated above: during the Battle of Asuras, Darts and 302s were able to take out the rear of an Aurora-class ship, and you could clearly see the shield flaring just before the tail was destroyed. —AscendedAlteran 17:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

But that was an Asuran one. But there must be something were missing with the Asurans, I mean, why not just fire a drone swarm from the planet like what O'Neill did to Anubis. And I dont think the Ancient warships were anything near as weak as the Asuran ones I mean they only lost like 3 ships in the whole thing and one Ancient Aurora could have taken out all 3 hives in one swarm of drones, and even Goa'uld shields are stronger than the ones the Asurans seemed to have it only took 1 or 2 missiles to destroy one of their ships. Sman789 18:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It took considerably more than you're saying to defeat the Asuran ships. The only ships that seemed to take any out were the Daedalus, Apollo and the Travelers Aurora-class warship.  I think they didn't launch drones from the surface because all of the Asurans on the surface were too busy getting sucked into that blob and Fran did seem to target a control room first which probably stopped that response for long enough that the other Asurans were effected before thy could try anything.


 * That was the control room of one city ship, but they would surely have more weapon emplacements (why no beam satelites, they could cut through the daedalus in one blast) especially since the events of "First Strike". Anyway it makes sense that auroras can fire all their drones at once just like outposts. So why not just target everyone and let 'em go with them, like have all the ships shoot everyone at once. The entire goodie fleet would be destroyed in a few seconds. And if you hijjaked a ship to take into a hostile situation (well, if you hijacked a ship at all!) you would check to see the specs of it, and try to learn as much from the asgard technology. I would bet that the new drones can go through the Asgard shields but it might deplete a lot of power from them and prevent them from drilling as many times.


 * That was the control room in the middle of the entire city if you paid attention and I think that they just got sucked in too fast into the buble to do anything after that. That satalite weapon utilized the Stargate and they couldn't send a beam through the Stargate while it eas over their own planet.  The Aurora class ships may just be able to fire their drones one salvo at a time and there were so many ships fighting them that they had to concentrate on more than one ship at once which may have made a difference and all were fast and manuverable except for the hive ships but those could take a lot of damage.  One was destroyed, but it seemed able to take a lot of punishment before succumbing.  The Daedalus prevented another one from being destroyed.


 * Firstly, no matter how maneuverable you are, nothing is more maneuveable than drones, secondly, even the salvo the Orion fired was more than I saw the Asurans ever firing and that could have destroyed the Daedadlus. Thirdly, they are machines so why not concentrate on the Daedalus being the biggest threat. Fourthly, I meant the Lantean beam satellite. Lastly, hives can't take a lot of damage, it takes less than one salve to blow one up (of the new Ancient drones,) there were like 30 Asuran ships or something like that so even if one Asuran ship went for each hive, and the rest went for the Daedalus, it'd be like Daedaus vs 27 old Auroras which are each more powerful than hives and it was shown in The Last Man that the Daedalus can be destroyed very quickly by 3 hives so 27 Auroras do the math. As for the Traveler ships I'm sure one or two of the Auroras could go off and take care of those still leaving like 24 on the Daedalus and 3 for the 2 Traveler ships, each by itself weaker than an aurora. It just couldnt work. Sman789 22:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually that was the Phoenix, and most of its systems weren't finished, and the others weren't even working. —AscendedAlteran 02:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * And they spent a month getting it working properly, but it still probably wasn't at its best. It didn't take much to lose weapons or have the hyperdrive start to overload.  The Daedalus took a hell of a lot more damage than that in the Battle of the Void and there were no overloads.

Actually the Traveler ships proved to be surprisingly resiliant: only one was destroyed in the battle and that took a lot of shots. There were two of our ships there, the Daedalus and the Apollo not just the Daedalus and both proved to be powerful enough that they only needed a couple of shots each to take out one of the Asuran ships while presumably they'd taken fire and didn't seem to have taken any significant damage.


 * Lol, that's the point, the Ancient ships are (alot) stronger than hives and 3 hives can destroy a 304 with 2 surviving...


 * Only reason those hives were able to do that is they caught that ship by surprise and it lost its Asgard weapons. If it hadn't lost those, I have no doubt that it probably would have won that battle.


 * ...So obviously the Asuran ones must be (far) weaker than Ancient ones. Sman789 23:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually now that I think about it, does ANYONE remember seeing the Asurans definitively firing drone weapons? The only time I can say that was in the "Return, Part 2", and those were from Atlantis. —AscendedAlteran 02:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Not definitivly but I think they probably used them during the last battle, I'm not sure that's what they were using but that's what I thought they were.

Actually, i agree with both of you. In the battle of asuras, they definitly used them in one scene where Sheppard fired the drones. But other than that they seemed to fire yellow bolts. The bolts moved more like energy weapons than drones. User:Phoenix304

Since when was this a BATTLESHIP? I have NEVER heard anyone in the show call it an "Aurora-class battleship".And if they did call it that, please tell me the episode in which they said it.—Tau&#39;ri 21300 08:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's called an Aurora-class battleship in the MGM Tech Journal. As this is the only official name we have, it's what we go with in this article. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 10:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Summary
Well to sum up that very long rant by all of us for the sake of future refernce, let me review.


 * The Plasma Beams are capable of destroying Asuran ships easily, but the question remains if they can take out Ancient ships as easily.


 * The ship the Apollo fought over Asuras was not Aurora.


 * It is highly likely that the Drones on the latest Aurora models and Atlantis are far superior to those used by the Asurans. As such, the 304's shields would either be much more damaged or would not be useful at all.


 * The Asuran vessels seemed to have low quantities of drones and perhaps energy weapons.


 * The Orion was a late model of Aurora.


 * Traveler ships have very advanced shields.

Don't take this the wrong way but:
 * Apparently the weapons that were designed to overpower even the strongest shields (Plasma Beams) are actualy not powerful weapons because they were designed to fight the strongest shields. Explain that one to me!

User:Phoenix304

Okay I agree with most of that. The Travelers ships shields are powerful enough to withstand some damage but I doubt they're anywhere near as powerful as Ancient or Asgard (and consequently Tau'ri) shields. I don't get that last one though. They're not powerful at all??? That makes no sense. They, drones and an Ori ship's main weapons are the most powerful weapons in both series. They work well on unshielded targets too: they destroyed a Hive Ship in two or three hits in The Last Man and the only reason it took around four to take out Michael's crusier in Search and Rescue was the Daedalus was holding back at first due to Teyla's presence on board. They are extremly powerful weapons. They can take out a Hive Ship in less shots than drones!!!!!!!! That took a whole salvo in No Man's Land but just two or three shots in The Last Man when it was the plasma beam weapons.


 * Another plasma beam and drone thing, as well as their ability to pass through Goauld (and possibly asgard) shields, drones cannot be taken offline (easily.) In every battle its always the beams that get taken out first so they are very fragile compared to drones that are stored inside the ship and are controlled through wireless chairs that are eaqually secure (they can also be controlled throgh buttons if neccessary like on the tower and in the Orion there was no mind panel on that command chair.) Even if the launch doors are welded togeather they can just fly threight through them. Its a big weakness of plasma weapons because the asgard shields leak damage through so they can be taken offline even before the shield fails. I agree entirely with Phoenix's points though. Sman789 17:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC)